Jurisdiction, Judgments and Applicable Law (Amendment) (EU Exit) Regulations 2020

Lord Lexden Excerpts

Tuesday 8th December 2020 Grand Committee

[Lord Ponsonby of Shulbrede (Lab) [V]]

I was just concluding my comments, but I think that the noble Lord, Lord Thomas, is after me on the list.

[The Deputy Chairman of Committees (Lord Lexden) (Con)]

When I am in the chair, there is no possibility of the noble Lord, Lord Thomas of Gresford, ever being overlooked. I call him now.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Stewart of Dirleton (Con)]

My Lords, if I may answer the noble Lord, Lord Ponsonby, first—however the order should have been, he spoke first. He asked whether it could be confirmed that the amendments under discussion today, as part of this statutory instrument, are not being discussed in Brussels. I am able to confirm that is the case. The United Kingdom will not be asking for bespoke arrangements on civil judicial co-operations such as these.

The noble Lord raised again the matter of enforcement power in magistrates’ courts where he sits, as he did in another context to me. I regret to advise the noble Lord that I do not have specific matters in relation to his concerns, but if I can ask him to show patience I will write to him on the matter and hope to allay fears that he may have.

The noble Lord, Lord Thomas of Gresford, spoke generously and gave a generous analogy—the helter-skelter of the times and circumstances in which the instruments containing minor errors were inaugurated. With respect, the noble Lord is quite correct to describe the circumstances with the analogy that he used. I have spoken at some length to members of the Bill team as to how these things happened. They confirmed that it was indeed a matter of the extreme and unprecedented urgency with which drafting took place. I stress to the Committee that these statutory instruments have never been enacted into law; the errors that are identified in the present statutory instrument, correcting those in the previous ones, are not errors that have caused any inconvenience to any litigant or any member of the public; and they have no caused any disruption to the court system in any part of the United Kingdom. They have been identified in good time and I freely acknowledge the assistance of the specialist stakeholders who have been in touch to point out these recondite areas in which the statutory instruments fell into error or were insufficiently clear.

Finally, the noble Lord, Lord Thomas, raised the matter of his position—interpreting history from a Whig standpoint. I am more of a Butterfield man, and refer to his book The Whig Interpretation of History. That is a huge field of history on which I look forward, when leisure permits, to having an interesting discussion with the noble Lord. I beg to move.

[The Deputy Chairman of Committees (Lord Lexden) (Con)]

My Lords, apologies are due to the noble Lord, Lord Ponsonby, and to my fellow Petrean and historian, the noble Lord, Lord Thomas of Gresford, for the confusion over the batting order this evening.

Motion agreed.