Welfare of Wild Animals in Travelling Circuses (England) Regulations 2012

Lord Kirkhill Excerpts

Wednesday 24th October 2012 Grand Committee

[Baroness Parminter]

I thank the Minister for his comments reiterating the Government’s commitment to move towards a ban on the use of wild animals in travelling circuses. That is clearly the will of the majority of the general public, the House of Commons and, I am sure, many Members in this House. Although I do not want to make any party political points, it is also Liberal Democrat Party policy.

The best that I can say about these regulations is that I do not oppose them as a temporary measure; indeed, it is clear that they may improve the protection of the welfare of animals kept in circuses. However, it would be fair to say that the majority view among the welfare organisations and indeed the veterinary profession is that adequate regulations cannot be put in place to guarantee the welfare of wild animals used in travelling circuses.

I have three questions for the Minister. The first relates to the standards that have been put forward in relation to comparative industries. There is a debate about whether these regulations are at a lower standard than those of the comparable industry of zoos. The example used is that of elephants. According to these regulations they would have between one-sixth to one-quarter of the space that they would get in a standard zoo. Indeed, under these regulations elephants can be chained and confined every night on the road. Do we feel that these welfare standards are comparable with comparative industries?

Secondly, having been through the impact assessment very carefully, I could not find notification of any animal welfare organisations, or indeed any veterinary organisations, that are in favour of these regulations. I understand that a majority of animal welfare groups—all of the major animal welfare groups—declined to participate in the consultation. While the BVA—the British Veterinary Association—did participate, it is opposed in principle to regulation. Are there any major welfare or veterinary organisations in this country that favour going down the route of regulation rather than moving straight to a ban? Given that 95% of the respondents to the consultation were in favour of the outright ban that the Minister recommitted the Government to move towards, were there any outstanding legal concerns where a ban based on ethical grounds could be challenged if it was undertaken under Section 12 of the 2006 Act, as ethical grounds may not be deemed sufficient for its purposes?

[Lord Kirkhill]

My Lady Chairman—is that the correct form of address?

[The Deputy Chairman of Committees]

In fact, I am the Lord Chairman, but we follow the normal custom of addressing Members of the Committee as “My Lords”.

[Lord Kirkhill]

I fully accept that definitive assessment.

My view is that Defra has been playing around with this for many a long day without real purpose. It is clear that primary legislation is required to ban the use of wild animals in circuses. What we are told—and one has to accept it because it is obvious—is that primary legislation takes some time to create.

Nevertheless, while one can concede—and I do—that these regulations are an improvement on the existing situation, we have to remember that the whole concept of the circus is built on cruelty. It is built on prodding and whipping the animals. It is built on the fact that poor-quality staff are employed; and behind the scenes cruel practice exists in training. Although the committee of experts suggested that the animals were not at hazard, were well fed, watered and so on, nevertheless they are cribbed, cabined and confined. They have to travel around and they are much restricted. You only have to see behind the scenes, as I have done over the years, a trainer raising a whip and an animal immediately or very often subsiding. It is clear that much cruelty is involved.

[Lord Gilbert]

I apologise, but my name is up on the Annunciator and it is not me speaking. I would hate for my noble friend to be mistaken for me. That would be quite unfair.

[Lord Kirkhill]

My goodness me. Given my noble friend’s advanced age, he gets up on his feet rather more quickly than I do. I must admit that the noble Lord, Lord Forsyth of Drumlean, stopped me in the Corridor the other day and said, “Lord Gilbert, that is a splendid contribution you have just made”. After all, I am a good-looking chap and my noble friend is just Lord Gilbert. You have to take that into account.

At any rate, I do not wish to say more. I have expressed my views. These regulations are marginally better, but my true condemnation is of Defra. I honestly believe that it has dragged its feet on this issue for years.

[Lord Colwyn]

My Lords, I received an e-mail from the animal welfare groups, which raised a number of concerns. The RSPCA, the BVA, the Born Free Foundation and CAPS asked me to attend these discussions on the regulations because they said that they were unenforceable, unethical, ineffective and in conflict with the Government’s promises.

I listened to my noble friend’s introduction which I think made it quite clear that these concerns are significantly overplayed. The regulations will, for the first time, set in law tough but clear welfare standards for those few remaining travelling circuses in England that use wild animals. They will require these travelling circuses to be licensed, with regular inspections by Defra-appointed inspectors, as well as routine visits by vets, which will ensure that high welfare standards are maintained.

When I saw this statutory instrument down for discussion, I rang my good friends Toti and Nell Gifford. These two wonderful people own a travelling circus in the Gloucestershire area. They do not have any wild animals. In fact, last time I saw them, the wild animal act involved a goose and some ducks, and they are not at all described as domesticated. They have horses, bareback riders, clowns and acrobats. I was hoping for some help from Nell and Toti with my remarks, but they are obviously busy with the circus and have no time for paperwork. However, a short e-mail eventually arrived the day before yesterday. He told me that all he wants to happen,

“is that animals that are used in circuses should have the highest standards of husbandry and should be monitored frequently, preferably with input from professionals from outside the entertainment sector—eg wildlife conservationists. In the case of horses, it would be helpful to seek the co-operation of the BHS to create a trade standard or operational certificate”.

The regulations achieve this.

The use and welfare of any animals, domesticated or wild, in circuses is understandably a matter of public concern. These regulations respond to the welfare concerns by ensuring that circus operators will now know what is expected of them, and the public will know that these standards are being enforced.