Intergovernmental Relations Within the United Kingdom

Lord Khan of Burnley Excerpts

Thursday 18th January 2024 Lords Chamber

[Lord Khan of Burnley (Lab)]

My Lords, as a proud Lancastrian it is a pleasure to follow a Yorkshireman, the noble Lord, Lord Wallace of Saltaire—although he did say that Yorkshire is a mess, which was an interesting statement. I was looking at the noble Lord, Lord Gascoigne, a fine Lancashire man, for solidarity.

I thank the noble Earl, Lord Kinnoull, for securing this debate and introducing it in such an eloquent manner. I thank noble Lords from across the House for making informative and useful contributions, many of which came from great expertise and experience. This debate is timely, and there are numerous questions and concerns that the Government need to address.

Since 1998, intergovernmental relations have been an important yet understudied part of the United Kingdom’s new machinery of government, once described by the noble Lord, Lord Hennessy, as the “hidden wiring” of the UK’s territorial constitution. The King’s Speech late last year promised to promote the integrity of the union and to strengthen the social fabric of the United Kingdom. This can be achieved only through a strong working relationship between the nations and regions of the UK. Unfortunately, the Government have often ridden roughshod over devolved Governments, leaving the union less stable and less secure than ever before.

Working in co-operation is always better than conflict, and we need the structures and institutions of shared government to drive this forward. Each part of the UK should have an equal and respected voice in decision-making, giving those responsible for delivery the freedom to innovate. While the specific policy solutions may vary across the regions and nations of our country, the UK also needs an underlying vision and a Government who are prepared to work in partnership with devolved Governments and local leaders to achieve this—a point which so many noble Lords across this House have made in this debate.

Today, as we speak, we are witnessing 100,000 people striking in Northern Ireland, with no indication of the formation of an Executive, and the deadline to achieve this being midnight tonight. What update can the Minister provide on the situation in Northern Ireland? What preparations are the Government making to address the situation? Do the Government foresee a new election in Northern Ireland? When can we have a functioning Northern Ireland Government? Can we have an update on this situation?

Northern Ireland’s involvement in the new intergovernmental relations structures has been impacted by the absence of a fully functioning Executive or Assembly since February 2022. We understand that senior civil servants have been attending intergovernmental review meetings in the absence of ministerial representation. Their attendance at ministerial meetings is in an observational capacity. What impact are these observers having on intergovernmental relations? The noble Baroness, Lady Stuart of Edgbaston, made a point about the great work that civil servants are doing in different parts of the devolved Governments, but what impact are they having here, as observers? After the intergovernmental review, a new structure was established in January 2022, providing ambitious and effective working to support our Covid recovery, tackle the climate change crisis and inequalities, and deliver sustainable growth. How can this be achieved when there is observer status in Northern Ireland? How can you have dialogue, strategy and sustainability discussions when there is only observation from one particular side?

What is the Minister’s response to the Welsh and Scottish Governments’ view that progress and momentum in implementing the new ways of working and mechanisms agreed as part of the view were slower than anticipated? The Welsh Government said that this was because of

“the instability of the UK government over this period and frequent UK ministerial changes”—

a point that the noble Lord, Lord Wallace, also referred to.

We note that the Independent Commission on the Constitutional Future of Wales was taking evidence and its report has been launched, as mentioned today by the noble Lord. What is the progress on evaluating recent practice in terms of meeting the intentions set out in the review and is the new machinery being used to operate a partnership approach?

The commission’s report was published today. It also talks about the “fragility of intergovernmental relations” as one of the “pressure points” of devolution, and states:

“The machinery for inter-governmental relations operates at the discretion of the UK government, and its reduced engagement in recent years has coincided with its willingness to override conventions”.


I refer noble Lords to the operation of the Sewel convention, particularly in Wales, whereby the consent of the Senedd is required for UK Bills that impact on devolved powers, which is of concern to the Welsh Government. In Wales, the Government reported late engagement from Bill teams in the UK Government and a reluctance to share information and drafting, and called these

“symptoms of a disregard for the legitimate interest the Welsh Government and Senedd have in UK legislation which touches on devolved issues”.

UK Bills introduced during 2022 that the Senedd refused consent to include the Northern Ireland Protocol Bill, the Genetic Technology (Precision Breeding) Bill, the Trade (Australia and New Zealand) Bill, the Procurement Bill and the Retained EU Law (Revocation and Reform) Bill. The UK Government has ignored the Senedd’s refusal of consent, in breach of the Sewel convention. In 2023, the Welsh Government also recommended that consent be withheld in relation to the Strikes (Minimum Service Levels) Bill, the Illegal Migration Bill and the majority of the Levelling-up and Regeneration Bill.

At a recent meeting of the Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee, the Counsel General was asked to comment on Sewel in relation to the new dispute resolution process, which a number of noble Lords have referred to. He said:

“The crux of the problem with Sewel is … the lack of codification of Sewel—the lack of clarity as to what it means, and the diverse ways in which it is treated”.


These disputes are problematic and

“ultimately, a political process of a constitutional disagreement that doesn’t have a real justiciable status”

is not enough.

The new dispute resolution mechanism introduced after the intergovernmental relations review is still relatively untested—a point that the noble Earl, Lord Kinnoull, mentioned at the start of his speech. The Senedd research service noted that a dispute between the Northern Ireland Executive and the Treasury appeared to be the only known use of the new dispute procedure so far. Can the Minister outline where else the dispute mechanism has been used and the nature of any dispute?

We have heard some excellent contributions across the House, and recurrent themes have been highlighted during the debate. I conclude by agreeing with what the UK Government said in September last year:

“The need for effective intergovernmental relations … has never been greater”.


This is understood to be in light of Brexit, Covid-19, climate change and international conflict. However, the lack of stability at the heart of the UK has been detrimental to intergovernmental relations. In practice, implementation of proposals has been disrupted by such instability. Does the Minister agree that having five UK Prime Ministers in the space of seven years, and constant reshuffles, has had a negative impact on effective intergovernmental collaboration?

The noble Baroness opposite mentioned the three-tier structure, as well as giving a very strong perspective in relation to Scotland. How is the three-tier system working, and what are the operational issues with this?

I agree with the noble Baroness, Lady Humphreys, that this cannot be dealt with by a sticking plaster approach. We need a stable and sustainable approach—a point that my noble friend Lady Andrews talked about. The theme and message for me is the phrase used by my noble friend Lord Murphy when he said that parity of esteem is needed. Better relationships between the Governments will eventually strengthen the union.

In concluding, I say that respect, good will, strong relationships and shared objectives across our nations are needed now and, unfortunately, they are missing from the Government’s approach. I look forward to hearing the noble Baroness’s reply.