Tobacco and Vapes Bill

Lord Kamall Excerpts

2nd reading
Wednesday 23rd April 2025 Lords Chamber

[Lord Kamall (Con)]

My Lords, I begin by declaring my interests as set out in the register. I am an unpaid member of the Academic Advisory Council of the Institute of Economic Affairs and have written for the Politeia think tank, both of which have published on health issues. The former has also examined some of the evidence published by the Government and others on the Bill. As a professor of politics and international relations at St Mary’s University, Twickenham, I am helping it set up its new medical school and am giving it advice on that. I am a visiting scholar at the Vinson Centre at the University of Buckingham, which also has a medical school. I am also an unpaid member of the advisory council of the Startup Coalition, some members of which are health-related start-ups, and some are perhaps even related to smoking cessation. I just wanted to be clear and get all that out.

This has been a long but excellent debate with many speakers—so long, in fact, that I suspect that noble Lords who are members of the informal Terrace smoking club will be longing to reach for their cigarettes or vapes. In detaining them a little longer, I thank all noble Lords who took part in today’s Second Reading. I am also grateful to the Minister for introducing the Bill in her usual clear way, and to her officials for meeting us earlier.

We have heard a range of views. At one end of the spectrum, there are those who believe that smoking should be banned as soon as possible and in as many places as possible. At the other end, there are those who see the debate in terms of freedom of choice and the right to smoke despite knowing the harm that it causes. Earlier today, when I was discussing this with another noble Lord, he quoted Kingsley Amis to me:

“No pleasure is worth giving up for the sake of two more years in a geriatric home”.


I respect the range of views, but in doing so, I think there are probably a few truths on which I hope we can agree. First, smoking is not good for you. That might sound like British understatement; maybe I should go stronger and say that smoking kills and nicotine is addictive. Secondly, the current evidence suggests that vaping is safer than smoking. The current evidence also suggests that not vaping is healthier than vaping. In recognising these three truths, I appreciate that the Government are trying to achieve a difficult balance—or, as the Minister said earlier, a “nuance”—between these two positions. The first is that vaping is a useful pathway away from smoking. The second is: how do we stop young people from taking up vaping and encourage current vapers to quit? The noble Lord, Lord Rook, very eloquently put the case of how we need to tackle youth vaping.

To achieve this difficult balance, we on these Benches want to see the Government making laws based on evidence, but also in a way that is effective, accountable and pragmatic. My noble friend Lord Howe raised the Government’s additions to the previous version of the Bill, especially the huge number of delegated powers. I thank my noble friend Lord Blencathra, a former chair of the Delegated Powers and Regulatory Reform Committee, for highlighting his concerns over criminal offences being made by secondary legislation or even just by delegated powers. That is something that we will probe from this side.

Among these delegated powers are the new powers in Part 7 to expand smoke-free places and impose further restrictions on where people can vape. We will want to probe whether it would be more appropriate to put it on the face of the Bill to make healthcare settings, children’s playgrounds and educational establishments smoke-free, rather than relying on the intention of some future Government. We should also consider the evidence for expanding vape-free areas, given the current lack of evidence about the harms of second-hand vape inhalation, and as that evidence evolves, we should find ways of reacting. I can understand that as an argument for delegated powers, but we have to get that balance right and not use it as an excuse.

We will also want to probe the possible unintended consequences of being seen to treat vaping and nicotine products in the same way that we treat tobacco products. As the noble Baroness, Lady Fox, mentioned, research has shown that approximately 50% of all UK adults believe that vaping is as harmful as, or even more harmful than, smoking. We know that current evidence does not suggest that. This is despite the fact that the NHS website says:

“In 2022, UK experts reviewed the international evidence and found that ‘in the short and medium-term, vaping poses a small fraction of the risks of smoking’”.


It also says:

“Vaping has not been around for long enough to know the risks of long-term use. While vaping is less harmful than smoking, it is unlikely to be totally harmless”.


We will probe whether placing similar restrictions to those on cigarettes on vaping and nicotine products will unintentionally deter current smokers from switching to less harmful vaping products.

A number of noble Lords, including the noble Lord, Lord Dodds, raised the impact of the Bill on small businesses, as did many of my noble friends, including my noble friend Lord Sharpe. Small independent retailers and convenience store owners have faced increased costs, such as the increase in national insurance contributions and the national minimum wage. Whatever their merits, the cost of those increases has clearly been passed on to small businesses.

Some worry about the cost of the Employment Rights Bill and now there is the additional licence fee for implementing the generational sales ban and the advertising ban on nicotine products. There will also probably be further regulations and restrictions under the number of secondary powers in this Bill.

I will quote Gurpal Jhutty, who runs a Nisa local in Leamington Spa. In a submission to the Public Bill Committee in the other place, he said:

“Look, I’m not a lobbyist. I’m not a politician. I’m just a shopkeeper trying to make a living, and I’m writing to you today because the proposed Tobacco and Vapes Bill has me seriously worried about the future of my business. You can consider this a retailer’s plea for common sense … I’m tired of being ignored. Retailers are on the front lines of this issue, and we have valuable insights to offer. Let’s ditch the bureaucratic nonsense and work together to create a policy that actually makes sense”.


Let me be clear: we are not asking to ditch this Bill, but we will probe it to create a Bill that is workable and makes sense.

The noble Lord, Lord Scriven, and the noble Baroness, Lady Fox, have rightly raised concerns about personal liberty, problems with prohibition and the practicality of the measures, especially age differentiation. We have heard both sides of that debate.

Noble Lords, including my noble friend Lord Brady and the noble Lord, Lord Teverson, have pointed out that smoking cannabis is illegal but is pervasive in many parts of London. The point is that this is not a Bill against smoking; it is a Bill against the sale of tobacco and vape products. We have to be clear about that.

Having said that, Inga Becker-Hansen of the British Retail Consortium told the Public Bill Committee on 7 January:

“in 30 years’ time if you have someone who is 45 versus 44 from the date of January 2009, it may lead to ID for each sale of a given product … Points of sale can be a flashpoint for violence and abuse against retail and shop workers, so it is a real concern for retailers”.—[Official Report, Commons, Tobacco and Vapes Bill Committee, 7/1/25; col. 58.]

We will also probe the impact of this Bill on the illicit trade in tobacco and vaping products. HMRC has estimated that in 2022-23 illicit tobacco accounted for 14.5% of the total UK market. Current estimates show that illicit vapes account for about 30% of the total vaping market. A 2024 report by the Home Office’s National Business Crime Centre found that the provisions in this Bill mean that

“the demand for illegal tobacco products is set to grow dramatically”.

We have to be careful about these unintended consequences.

Like my noble friends Lord Naseby and Lord Leicester and the noble Baroness, Lady Hoey, we will want to probe whether restrictions on vaping products could lead to an increase in the illegal trade, leading to a risk of more dangerous and unregulated products being used and finding their way into circulation. We are all united in wanting to tackle illicit and illegal products.

Noble Lords, including my noble friend Lord Murray, have expressed concern that the Government appear complacent about the illicit tobacco trade. While they rely on figures that show a drop in illicit tobacco sales, a Europe-wide report from KPMG—based on looking at discarded tobacco packages, rather than on assumptions and mathematical formulae—reported an increase in illicit consumption in the UK in 2023. I understand why these figures have been dismissed, because the report was funded by a tobacco company; I completely understand that reasoning.

However, I would be interested in understanding whether the Government will commission similar research looking at discarded tobacco packets as a method of understanding the illicit tobacco trade. If they will not, can they explain why—not immediately, but in writing? Could they explain why they have doubts about this methodology and prefer the formula used by HMRC, which has been criticised by many people for the assumptions it makes around smoking? We will be probing the Government on this and on what action they will take to tackle this rise in illicit sales. We know that all noble Lords will agree on tackling illicit sales of illegal products.

Finally, I am a huge believer in the role of local community non-state initiatives that improve people’s health. I have worked with organisations that help to tackle obesity and local financial and other problems. We will probe the Government on what they have learned and can learn from local community initiatives that have reduced smoking. We have not heard enough today about local community initiatives, the people who understand their local communities and the projects in those communities that could reduce smoking. Most of it has been about top-down measures to try and reduce smoking.

Whether noble Lords smoke or not, I hope we are united in our desire to reduce the incidence of smoking-related deaths and share concerns over the rise in youth vaping. I am also sure many of us will want to help the Government achieve an appropriate balance based on evidence, pragmatism and proportionality. I thank all noble Lords who spoke and look forward to the many days of debate ahead.