Local Government Finance Bill

Lord Jenkin of Roding Excerpts

Thursday 19th July 2012 Grand Committee

In summary, these amendments would give local authorities the flexibility to take local decisions on whether pensioners should be included in any changes to council tax discount arrangements and on whether the single person discount should be reduced. This would allow good judgment to prevail locally, and no new burdens would be placed on the poor and vulnerable groups currently helped by the council tax benefit. I beg to move.

[Lord Jenkin of Roding]

My Lords, my noble friend Lord Tope and I have three amendments that are grouped with the amendment that the noble Lord, Lord Best, has addressed. He made a very compelling speech. If it really is possible to make the reductions he suggested in the single person relief that would eliminate the need to have to make difficult cuts across the board, particularly to those at the bottom end of the income scale—others have devoted a good deal of time in this committee to analysing those problems—it should be looked at extremely carefully. I must confess that I have not read the IFS report, but I have seen the figures produced by the LGA and they seem pretty persuasive. I look forward to hearing what my noble friend has to say about them.

The other theme from the noble Lord, Lord Best—and I say, in parenthesis, that he has absolutely no reason to apologise for the length of his speech, which was one of the most important speeches we have heard during the Committee stage—was the question of local discretion against central direction. It is to this that my three amendments are addressed. They do not have quite the sweep of the noble Lord’s amendments, particularly Amendment 93ZA, but they are nevertheless important.

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Moved by

[Lord Jenkin of Roding]

83ZA: Schedule 4, page 60, line 1, leave out sub-paragraph (4)

[Lord Jenkin of Roding]

I can deal with this more briefly than the previous debate. I to some extent share the disappointment of the noble Lord, Lord Best, at the reaction that he got from both Front Benches. Amendment 83ZA is a probing amendment to ask whether we really need to prescribe in this way the details of how a local scheme should be produced, or when the scheme is revised or replaced.

There are very good reasons why, once a scheme is up and running, the local authority should be perfectly able to decide if and when revisions are necessary. If they are going to have true discretion and flexibility over the provision of local support schemes, the procedures relating to the preparation of the schemes and their revision should also be under local control. I beg to move.

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[Baroness Lister of Burtersett]

Thank you very much.

[Lord Jenkin of Roding]

The whole Committee will be grateful to my noble friend for her careful answer to the points made in the debate. We shall want to read carefully what she has said and, if so advised, to return to the matter later. Before I withdraw the amendment, perhaps I may say that I am about to withdraw myself. I have to make preparations to get off to celebrate my diamond wedding in Scotland. I hope that I may be forgiven. With that, I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.

[Lord McKenzie of Luton]

Before the noble Lord withdraws his amendment—I would not wish to keep him from his celebration and we pass on our best wishes to him for it—I note that, again, the Government refuse to give any practical help to local authorities on the issue of vulnerable people. We know why that is, as they are leaving local authorities high and dry to make those difficult decisions, not wanting to take any responsibility themselves. That will be a continuing theme of the Bill, and I am sure that we will return to it.

[Lord McKenzie of Luton]

In a sense, the noble Baroness is saying that the Government are imposing on local authorities the judgment on whether to help vulnerable people at the expense of slightly less vulnerable people. If the Government are imposing such decisions, they should take responsibility for making those judgments.

[Lord Jenkin of Roding]

I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.

Amendment 83ZA withdrawn.