Israel: Gaza

Lord Hughes of Woodside Excerpts

Monday 23rd March 2015 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, as I mentioned earlier, Mr Netanyahu is in the process of forming a Government. He has made it clear that he wants a sustainable, peaceful, two-state solution, and there will be great pressure on him to achieve exactly that, including from this Government.

[Lord Hughes of Woodside (Lab)]

My Lords, did not Mr Netanyahu say, quite specifically, that there would be no two-state solution on his watch? Then there is this change of view, where apparently he says that he does, but he does not. Is it not time that the Government spoke very firmly to that Prime Minister and say that he must make it absolutely clear that nothing less than a two-state solution will do?

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, I agree entirely with that second sentiment. We make it clear to Israel that only a two-state solution will do, and one which can be achieved by an agreement between both Israel and the Palestinian Authority. That is, I agree, the right way forward.

Kashmir: Line of Control

Lord Hughes of Woodside Excerpts

Thursday 20th November 2014 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, there is a long history indeed to the dispute; that has already been drawn to our attention. Subsequent to the United Nations Security Council Resolution 47, there have been further developments. The noble Lord, Lord Ahmed, will know of the Simla Agreement which now forms, as I understand it, the basis of the negotiations between India and Pakistan. It is clear that India and Pakistan themselves have the opportunity to take peaceful measures bilaterally to resolve the issue, taking into account the wishes of the Kashmiri people. There are elections ahead, and they have always in the past been judged by the international community to be free and fair.

[Lord Hughes of Woodside (Lab)]

My Lords, understanding that this is a very sensitive issue, will the Minister reflect that over the many decades which have passed, the British Government have frequently intervened to try to get some sense into a difficult situation, and that we should not set our face entirely against trying to play some sort of mediation role or at least some sort of role to stimulate proper development?

Nigeria: Chibok Abductions

Lord Hughes of Woodside Excerpts

Wednesday 14th May 2014 Lords Chamber

[Lord Chidgey (LD)]

My Lords—

[Lord Hughes of Woodside (Lab)]

My Lords—

[Baroness Berridge]

My Lords—

[Lord Hill of Oareford]

My Lords, we must hear from the Labour Benches.

[Lord Hughes of Woodside]

My Lords, is the Minister aware that some of us in this House find it equally abhorrent that we should be talking about mediation with extremist groups such as Boko Haram, and that appeasement of such groups does not lead to peace but will encourage them to even greater atrocities?

[Baroness Warsi]

I think, my Lords, that I answered that question in a previous answer.

United Nations High Commissioner for Human Rights

Lord Hughes of Woodside Excerpts

Monday 16th December 2013 Lords Chamber

[Lord Hughes of Woodside (Lab)]

My Lords, closer to home, will the Minister take this opportunity to condemn the gender discrimination which is creeping into our universities and which apparently has the support of the people who control university education at the highest level?

[Baroness Warsi]

My Lords, I have strong views on this, but it may be well beyond the scope of the Question.

Syria

Lord Hughes of Woodside Excerpts

Thursday 27th June 2013 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Warsi]

Given our own history of intervention, it is important that we get appropriate legal and international support for what we do. That is why the Prime Minister has consistently tried to get agreement at the UN Security Council. It is no secret that Russia has not been prepared to move to get that agreement, but—my noble friend referred to this—we still believe in having a conference where the UN, the US and Russia sit round the table with the opposition and members of the regime to try to find a political resolution. As for chemical weapons, I think noble Lords will understand why it is important that we are incredibly clear about what weapons have been found, where they have been found, who has used them, and that there is international agreement, based on the evidence that we have so far, before we start using that as a basis for intervention.

[Lord Hughes of Woodside]

My Lords, the noble Baroness has said that all options are available for negotiation. Does she mean that the Government have abandoned their policy, as I understand it, of saying that regime change is a prerequisite for any negotiations?

[Baroness Warsi]

Our position has always been that it is for the people of Syria to decide who should govern Syria. Hearing the views of the Syrian people and seeing the conduct of Assad, we find it difficult to see a solution whereby Assad would remain in power. However, I am clear, and the Government are clear, that this has to be a decision of the Syrian people.

Middle East

Lord Hughes of Woodside Excerpts

Friday 16th March 2012 Lords Chamber

[Lord Hughes of Woodside]

My Lords, anyone who has seen the reports on television and elsewhere about Syria must be appalled at the carnage that has been shown and must feel anguish, concern and great anger towards the Assad regime. There is no doubt that we all want to see a peaceful end to that process, and we want to see it quickly. None of us has a silver bullet that is going to bring it about overnight, and we are therefore perhaps left in the position of seemingly imploring the world to act to stop the carnage.

I was brought up during the Second World War and I remember the saying, “Careless talk costs lives”. There are those who are now advocating that the opposition—now called “rebels”—be armed, and there is the beguiling prospect of giving those who are defenceless the possibility of defending themselves. However, as noble Lords must be aware, this policy would make matters worse. This really is careless talk that would cost lives. Those who advocate it are seized of the inevitability of a full-scale civil war or indeed believe that such a civil war would be desirable. I am deeply disappointed that at one stage the Foreign Secretary, Mr Hague, appeared to give some sort of support to the idea of arming the rebels. I hope that he has changed his mind or that the reports have not been entirely accurate. Also, talk of arming the rebels seems to give some credence to Assad’s claim that it is an outside-fomented revolution, and it will do nothing whatever to encourage the Chinese and the Russians to come on board with the Security Council.

I turn to the situation in Libya and raise, in particular, the plight of the migrant African workers who are caught in the backlash of the ending of the Gaddafi regime. There are many reports of violence against them. They are living in appalling conditions, which are deteriorating day by day. There have been reports from Human Rights Watch, Amnesty International and the United Nations Office of the High Commissioner for Human Rights, all of which are calling for an end to the violence against these African labourers, although of course the violence is not confined to them. The High Commissioner for Human Rights, Navi Pillay, reported in January:

“A related area that I am extremely concerned about is the conditions of detention and treatment of detainees held by various revolutionary brigades. The ICRC visited over 8,500 detainees in approximately 60 places of detention between March and December 2011. The majority of detainees are accused of being Gaddafi loyalists and include a large number of sub-Saharan African nationals. The lack of oversight by the central authorities creates an environment conducive to torture and ill-treatment. My staff have received alarming reports that this is happening in places of detention that they have visited”.

I have seen unverified footage of migrant workers being forced to perform in zoos, cavorting, playing and being taunted by onlookers, and even being made to eat the former Libyan flag. That should not, and must not, happen. I have no means of knowing whether that was an isolated incident or whether it was true, but there is no point in our making grandiose statements on the sanctity of human rights if we cannot even protect the most vulnerable and the poorest in that society. We must do something to help these destitute people to return to their homes.

I think that Libya is in some danger of fragmentation. On 6 March, the authorities in Benghazi declared the semi-authority of the Cyrenaica eastern region, raising fears for the future. The leaders in Benghazi have made it clear that separation is not on the agenda, but things move all the time. We should remember that Libya was a confederation from 1950 to 1961 of Cyrenaica, Tripolitania and Fezzan. That only ceased when Gaddafi came to power.

It is clear that we have a very difficult situation, and we must address it. It is worth bearing in mind that the African Union, before Gaddafi’s downfall, drew attention to the serious possibility that the integrity of Libya would be fragmented. We must not let that happen. The Arab spring raised great hope and optimism for the future, not just in Libya but in the whole of the Middle East. I fear that the storm clouds are now gathering over the Middle East. Instead of an Arab spring, we now face an Arab autumn—and an Arab winter is not far behind.

Zimbabwe

Lord Hughes of Woodside Excerpts

Monday 13th February 2012 Lords Chamber

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

The noble Lord’s analysis is quite right: there is a good deal of toing and froing, and SADC is indeed the guarantor of the global political agreement. He asked what pressure we can put on it. We are in constant contact with SADC; and we in the EU, and the Commonwealth arrangements, are also in contact with it. It is our view that we should leave the lead to SADC in this matter and in mounting the pressures on and persuading the Zimbabwean authorities, but we will certainly do our best within that context.

[Lord Hughes of Woodside]

Does the Minister accept that although violence has been reduced somewhat in Zimbabwe, it is still unacceptably high? That being the case, will he not only exert pressure but encourage President Zuma, the South African Government and SADC to do everything possible to ensure that there can be no proper constitutional change until the violence has ended and the global political agreement is agreed in full?

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

We certainly agree with that. Mr Zuma has of course taken the lead in SADC, with the support of its other member countries. They have made more progress in recent times than I think the pessimists feared, and we will continue on the path of encouragement and pressure and of offering any services that we can at the right time.

Hungary

Lord Hughes of Woodside Excerpts

Monday 30th January 2012 Lords Chamber

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

I certainly share the concerns, and I also share the hopes reflected in the noble Lord’s question—that in our chairmanship position we will be able to carry these concerns forward. The noble Lord is quite right to draw attention to that.

[Lord Hughes of Woodside]

My Lords, given that Hungary went through years of dictatorship under Nazi occupation and then through years of dictatorship under the Soviet regimes, would it not be surprising if the people of Hungary were not aware of that past and willing to fight very hard for their freedoms, and should we not assist them when they do?

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

Of course we should. Certainly speaking for myself, one of the turning points in my lifetime was when these countries, which were in effect enslaved under communism, came into freedom in the latter part of the last century. That was a wonderful thing. We played a good part in bringing it about and we must continue to fight for those freedoms. I agree with the noble Lord.

Cluster Munitions

Lord Hughes of Woodside Excerpts

Thursday 10th November 2011 Lords Chamber

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

The noble Lord made a number of points. The antique cluster weapons are of course often the nastiest, particularly if they are used, so banning them is no bad thing. As for the negotiation over the protocol, obviously we will take into account the points that the noble Lord has made. However, perhaps he should take into account the point that 85 to 90 per cent of all cluster weapons are with non-Oslo state parties and so are left out of the present commitment, to which we ourselves are totally committed. If his advice is that we should ignore that situation, that sounds to me like a direct attack on a humanitarian benefit that we might achieve. I wonder if he would not like to reconsider his position.

[Lord Hughes of Woodside]

My Lords, what is the mechanism for the adoption of the convention? Is it a majority vote by the Security Council? Do we have a veto?

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

We have already adopted the convention and it is a question of getting more countries to sign up to it. Alas, there are a number of important countries—the United States, Russia and China, for a start—that have not done so. That is the mechanism on the existing convention. If any protocol emerges from this, and that is a very large if—it depends on the force of our stance and our commitment not to sign anything that would undermine the convention—that would have to be approved by the United Nations and would have to receive signatories in the same way.

Middle East and North Africa

Lord Hughes of Woodside Excerpts

Tuesday 26th April 2011 Lords Chamber

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

I am very grateful to my noble friend whose experience in these matters is unquestioned. What he says is right: these are historic developments. They are of course different in the different countries. There is a danger, while there is a certain degree of cross-border infection and contagion, of seeing the political mechanics inside each country as similar, which they are not. Each country is different and I have been reminded of that very vividly having spent the whole of last week in the Middle East.

My noble friend asked particularly about Algeria and its involvement in this. It is something we are watching very closely indeed. We welcome President Bouteflika’s announcement that he intends to introduce political reforms, including the setting up of a constitutional commission and a revision to the law governing political parties. We hope that is a political reform statement that will be put in practice. There is no clear evidence of Algerian support for Colonel Gaddafi but it is certainly true that in the past Gaddafi has sought friends in that large neighbouring country, as he has sought friends throughout the African Union further south. Some of these friendships probably remain but I do not think I can comment further on the precise posture being taken up by Algeria externally at the moment; internally it is clear that the Algerian authorities are aware of the reform pressure operating on all governments which do not recognise the need for reform and do not recognise that the world has changed and that people now feel empowered to demand the freedoms and justice which they have been denied in the past.

[Lord Hughes of Woodside]

My Lords, while the Minister has said the Government are resisting mission creep, does he not accept that the greater danger is mission drift? The contact group met once this month largely to reiterate what the policy previously was and it will not meet again until next month. This does not show any degree of urgency in this matter. Does he accept that a lack of cohesion and urgency appears to be shown by ad hoc statements made by Ministers which they contradict the next day? We said we were going to arm the rebels. No, we are not. We were going to train the rebels. Well, not really. Although the Minister has said specifically today Gaddafi is not a target, the Defence Secretary in New York, I think, two days ago said that Gaddafi was a legitimate target. We cannot have this position where we swing from one to the other. While the measures on sanctions and so on are important the fact is the urgency arises in stopping the fighting and the killing as soon as possible. I regret the idea we seem to have settled easily into the acceptance that it is going to be a long haul. A long haul will not really protect civilians. We really must show a greater deal of urgency than at present.

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

I do not accept that depiction of the situation at all. Of course in all dramatic and violent situations, such as the one that has developed in Libya, it would be the unwise person who predicted exactly what is going to happen next and exactly which path can be followed with clockwork results. The situation simply is not like that.

However, the overall strategy and direction are clear. They are to act within the resolution and to make the obvious point, which has been made throughout the entire Arab world and in parts of Africa and indeed in Asia as well, that there can be no peace and better future for Libya until the civilian killing stops and the chief agents of the civilian killing—notably, Colonel Gaddafi—go. Of course that raises questions of where and how he should go, which are not questions we feel are our responsibility to answer. However, the general trend is a strong one, although the timing is impossible to predict.

The actions are firm and have already been decisive in some areas, although in other areas less so. There are major difficulties where tanks and Howitzer artillery and mortar artillery and possibly some revolting weapons as well are being used by Gaddafi’s troops inside civilian areas—within the narrow streets of Libyan towns they cannot be picked out. This is the problem of fighting, which is bound to go to and fro. However, I do not think the noble Lord’s picture of indecision and drift is a fair one. There is a pattern here of responsibility to protect and responsibility to open a more stable future for this very sensitive part of the Middle East and the north Africa region.