Israel and Palestine

Lord Howell of Guildford Excerpts

Thursday 3rd March 2011 Lords Chamber

[Lord Dykes]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what assessment they and the Middle East Quartet have made of the effects of recent civil unrest in Arab countries on any resumption of Palestinian-Israeli negotiations.

[The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Lord Howell of Guildford)]

My Lords, at a time of great regional uncertainty, the quick resumption of negotiations between Israelis and Palestinians is more vital, not less. We need to show that legitimate aspirations for statehood can be met through negotiations. The entire international community, led by the Middle East quartet, should now support the 1967 borders as the basis for resumed negotiations.  The result should be two states, with Jerusalem as the future capital of both, and a fair settlement for refugees.

[Lord Dykes]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for that Answer, but is this not exactly the right time when the Netanyahu Government could now display some wisdom by responding to the EU part of the quartet’s suggestions for a freeze on settlements and the immediate resumption of talks with the Palestinian Authority, to lead to a solution equitable to both new states?

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

My noble friend is quite right that now ought to be exactly the right time. It ought to be very much more the time than was the case even a few weeks ago. However, we have to face the reality that obviously the Israeli Government feel extremely nervous and uncertain about what is to happen in Egypt, while we are urging more decisive action and firm decisions. Still, that does not deter us at all from pushing very hard on this central issue.

[Lord Wright of Richmond]

One month ago, today on 3 February and later on 11 February, I asked in this House whether the Government would upgrade the status of the Palestinian general delegation in London. Does the Minister agree, when I ask that question again, that it would in fact be a small but important signal of the Government’s support for a Palestinian state as the result of a two-state solution?

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

I agree it is a very important matter, worth considering, but I am afraid my answer at the moment to the noble Lord is that we are still looking at it—in a positive light and in light of the need to upgrade the negotiations and get momentum behind them—but we have not reached a decision yet.

[Lord Anderson of Swansea]

Does the Minister agree that whatever the effect of the unrest, the fundamental fact remains that it is the United States that will have the key role, if it so chooses, in the peace process and, further, that our own potential role is hampered by the fact that many Israeli politicians and military people stand the danger of being arrested in this country if they were to come? What are the prospects for Clause 151 of the Police Reform and Social Responsibility Bill, which at least would allow the DPP to interpose his judgment, rather than that of a magistrate, before a private prosecution takes place?

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

As the noble Lord knows, the Government intend to amend the law so that a private individual cannot obtain an arrest warrant under universal jurisdiction without the consent of the Director of Public Prosecutions. We are quite pleased with progress—the legislation passed through Second Reading in early December and we expect the Bill to have Royal Assent before July. The problem has been recognised and action is being taken.

[Lord Janner of Braunstone]

Does the noble Lord agree that the recent civil unrest and changes in the region provide a unique opportunity for both Israel and the Palestinians? Does he agree that, if they are finally joined by other democratic nations in a fully negotiated settlement, that would be best for all the people in the region?

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

I strongly agree and I am very pleased to hear the noble Lord, whose views I greatly respect and who has stood up often as a somewhat lone voice in public affairs in these matters, say what he has just said. It is an extremely valuable contribution.

[Lord Palmer of Childs Hill]

Does the Minister agree that the civil unrest referred to in the Question was started in Tunisia by an unemployed guy being refused a licence to sell vegetables and that the people in countries with unrest at the moment are more concerned with their civil and economic rights than with the Israel-Palestine issue?

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

The noble Lord is right to say that the effects of civil unrest are rippling through the entire region, both north Africa and the Levant, and even touching the Gulf states. These are very important matters, but I do not think that he would disagree that one problem is the continuous poison, as it were, of the Israeli-Palestine dispute and that, if that could be settled, we would at least be on the way forward.

[Lord Hannay of Chiswick]

Does the Minister agree that the greatest risk to the Government of Israel would be a vacuum in the peace process at a time of great ferment in its Arab neighbours, who may be pushed by such a vacuum in a more radical direction, which would make the search for peace more difficult? Does he not feel that the best contribution that could be made in the near future is for either the quartet or the United States to put some ideas on the table and seek to engage both parties in a discussion of those ideas?

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

That is exactly what we would like to do and are seeking to do. The noble Lord, with his experience, has just reaffirmed my earlier point that, although this is what we must now do, the pressures are pressing the opposite way inside Israel, where there is increasing nervousness at the uncertainty and the difficulties afflicting their neighbours. We are dealing with a tricky situation, in which the persuasion we need to get Israel and Palestine negotiating on a new and sensible basis is working one way—and we are pushing—but Israeli fears are working the other way.

[Lord Clinton-Davis]

Will the noble Lord accept from me that his reply to the Question is 100 per cent right, and I support it? What is rather more strange is that I support the noble Lord, Lord Wright. Is it not imperative that the Government should come to a conclusion about the issue he raised forthwith? We should not simply accept that the situation should go on indefinitely.

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

The noble Lord is clearly in a supportive mood this morning and I am grateful to him for that. He is right to say that recognition of the Palestinian representation here is an important issue. We will seek to come to an early conclusion and I take note of his concern that we should do so.

[Baroness Tonge]

Does the Minister agree that this would be a good time to agree with the signatories of the letter in the Guardian this morning that all arms sales from this country to Middle Eastern states, including Israel, should be suspended?

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

Not necessarily. The reality we all have to face is that there are plenty of arms in the world and these arms can be obtained from anywhere, in various forms. We control very carefully our exports of arms, in a very tightly regulated way, and we do not believe that merely creating substantial unemployment here and damaging our well regulated industry, paving the way for less regulation and possibly worse and more dangerous arms in many countries in the Middle East, would help one iota towards peace and stability in the area.

[Baroness Symons of Vernham Dean]

Does the Minister agree that in fact we have two sets of circumstances here? On the one hand, there is the sustained and absolute refusal of Israel to stop building settlements in the Occupied Territories—no matter who asks, including the United States—and that makes the possibility of a viable and contiguous Palestinian state less likely. Combined with that, as a result of the unrest we have the possibility, no matter what the root causes are, of elections that may well lead to the establishment of Governments in the Arab countries with a mandate against the Middle East peace process based on a two-state solution. That toxic combination makes the issue very urgent now. Does the Minister believe that there is a very short window of opportunity for the resumption of these negotiations?

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

I agree strongly with the noble Baroness’s analysis. The dangers are very great from all these developments. We have said several times in these exchanges that it does not take a genius to see that the Israeli Government are much more worried by the uncertainty, and therefore pushing them toward negotiation is going to be tougher still. However, there is a little window for us to push to try to achieve something, and we are going to do so very hard indeed.