Taipei Representative Office in the United Kingdom

Lord Howell of Guildford Excerpts

Monday 25th November 2024 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Chapman of Darlington (Lab)]

My Lords, we value the work of the WHO and the contribution that Taiwan has made through the World Health Assembly. We will continue to support its participation, because we believe that everyone who has something to contribute to this important organisation and its work should be supported in doing so.

[Lord Howell of Guildford (Con)]

My Lords, the Chinese say that, if necessary, they will surround and besiege the island of Taiwan in three hours. That is their estimate and they have positioned forces to do it. They will then be surrounding an island that produces about 39% of the world’s larger industrial chips and probably an even greater percentage of domestic microcircuits, which really create the modern world, so we would be in a very serious position. Can we work closely with the Taipei Representative Office here and all our Taiwanese friends to foresee and prepare for the problems with such a situation in various ways, including by developing our own microchip industries 10 times more vigorously?

[Baroness Chapman of Darlington (Lab)]

The noble Lord is right to remind us of the precariousness of a situation arising such as he describes. It would be very dire indeed for the world economy. It would take around 10% of the world’s GDP, and no country, including China, would be immune to that impact.

Jailing of Hong Kong Pro-democracy Activists

Lord Howell of Guildford Excerpts

Wednesday 20th November 2024 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Chapman of Darlington (Lab)]

My Lords, I was among the people in the other place who called for the BNO passport holders to be given the rights that they have, and we will continue to do that. That is one way in which we stand up for the people of Hong Kong. The other way is through using our voice when we can. The view that this Government take—and I appreciate that this is a different take on this from that which the previous Government had—is that, through some engagement, we might be better able to effect the kind of change that we would all wish to see.

[Lord Howell of Guildford (Con)]

My Lords, I do not think that this is a party point at all. It all seems a bit defensive. Has not the noble Lord, Lord Purvis, got a point? We find all the time the Chinese trying to undermine our democracy by various subterranean or covert arrangements inside this country and in many other parts of the world, including most of the Commonwealth. Can we not at least be reassured that we are using the same degree of ingenuity to undermine completely false claims by the Chinese, particularly where they are flouting United Nations directives themselves? Can we establish that, while we have to trade and work on climate issues with the Chinese—you cannot just cancel them—nevertheless, we will be absolutely determined to hold them to the rule of law, which if they undermine they will pay the price for?

[Baroness Chapman of Darlington (Lab)]

I agree with the gist of what the noble Lord has just said. He is right to point out that we have concerns with China on issues of human rights, and we raise them; we seek opportunities to do so. We do have a trade relationship with China and we also have global challenges on climate, health and other issues. It is in our best interests to co-operate and collaborate with China, but we will compete when we need to and we will not shy away from challenging when that is right as well.

Chagos Islands

Lord Howell of Guildford Excerpts

Thursday 14th November 2024 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Chapman of Darlington (Lab)]

What is important is that Chagossians have the right to visit and return that the Mauritian Government will be free to enable. This is new, and some Chagossians have said that they wish to see this. It will now be possible under this deal. On the record of the previous Government, it is not for me to say whether the outrage is faux—others will judge. But I will say that I regret very much the implication by some on the Opposition Benches—by no means all, and I do not point the finger at the noble Lord, Lord Callanan—to attempt to co-opt other overseas territories into this, and to somehow suggest that there is a vulnerability there, which there is not. This is a unique situation, and I am glad that we have been able to move this forward and resolve it. It secures our base in the Indian Ocean and gives certainty on that and to Chagossian communities here.

[Lord Howell of Guildford (Con)]

My Lords, as the noble Baroness’s brief will probably be telling her, the Chinese are taking an immensely close interest in what is happening in the Chagos Islands and Mauritius. Can she reassure us that the Foreign Office has a clear focus on how the Chinese are playing this situation and what they are up to generally, in the Chagos Islands and in many other islands and coastal states of the Commonwealth, where they are involving themselves increasingly closely?

[Baroness Chapman of Darlington (Lab)]

We consider this issue closely. I draw noble Lords’ attention to the fact that Mauritius is a close ally of ours and of India, and it does not take part in the Chinese belt and road initiative. It is our view that the stable, secure and long-term arrangement we now have protects the Chagos Islands from any interest from any other parties that we would not wish to see.

China: Human Rights and Sanctions

Lord Howell of Guildford Excerpts

Tuesday 29th October 2024 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Chapman of Darlington (Lab)]

I completely agree with my noble friend, as does the Foreign Secretary. These issues are raised. The sanctions against parliamentarians for things they have said are completely unwarranted and unacceptable. The Foreign Secretary met with Speaker Hoyle before his trip to China to reiterate that this was a concern to him. It is a concern to the Foreign Secretary and to all of us in the Government. It is inappropriate that parliamentarians in this and the other House should be sanctioned in this way, and we will consistently raise this with China.

[Lord Howell of Guildford (Con)]

My Lords, I am sure that it is right to raise where Chinese behaviour is deplorable and to challenge China robustly, but should we not seek to switch the emphasis to a less defensive and more positive side? We can outsmart the Chinese by showing that our kind of liberal capitalism, when we reform it—it needs reforming—is vastly superior to anything they can deliver, and that freedom under the law and free speech are of more benefit to nations than falling under the Chinese hegemon, as they will find in time. If the security and prosperity of the developing world are the prime requirement, the Commonwealth contains six of the fastest-growing economies in the world—a very much better bunch than the dodgy deals of BRI and other arrangements with the Chinese, where countries just find themselves loaded with more and more debt. Is there not a more positive side to take, as well as raising these issues that have very properly been raised?

[Baroness Chapman of Darlington (Lab)]

On this Government’s approach, we want a consistent, strategic and pragmatic relationship because we think that is the best way to make progress on some of these issues that are of concern to all sides of the House. The way that we are describing this is that we will co-operate where we can, compete where we need to and challenge where we must.

Somaliland

Lord Howell of Guildford Excerpts

Thursday 10th October 2024 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Chapman of Darlington (Lab)]

My Lords, the noble Baroness is right in her strong support for Somaliland, but that does not change our position on the question of recognition of Somaliland as an independent state. She is right, and we have a very long-standing and deep relationship with Somaliland, not least because of the large number of Somalis living here in the UK, but also our support for the port there, for health, education, security and in many other ways. We are very pleased to continue that relationship.

[Lord Howell of Guildford (Con)]

My Lords, are we sure that we have got this completely right? I remember 10 years ago at the Foreign Office having to give exactly the same answers about this as the Minister has given now. On reflection, and in totally changed conditions, particularly in the Middle East and in east Africa, surely those new considerations come in. Why do we have to wait for every other nation to recognise and help Somaliland? It is an extremely feisty country, if I might use that word. It is quite well run and passionately pro-British. It would do us enormous help to have a good friend in that very sensitive area, with the Chinese pouring in next door. It makes utter sense for our own foreign policy to think about this positively. Would the Minister take it back to the Foreign Office and ask it to think again?

[Baroness Chapman of Darlington (Lab)]

Well, I am very pleased to provide consistency in the Government’s approach. The UK needs to tread carefully in the Horn of Africa in regard to this, given the situation that the noble Lord has just described. We have strong links; we have a permanent diplomatic presence in Somaliland. But my sense is that it would not be the right thing to do for stability in the wider region to wade in and take such an action at this time.

Global Combat Air Programme International Government Organisation (Immunities and Privileges) Order 2024

Lord Howell of Guildford Excerpts

Monday 29th July 2024 Lords Chamber

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Baroness Chapman of Darlington) (Lab)]

My Lords, in December 2022, the United Kingdom, Japan and Italy jointly launched the global combat air programme, known as GCAP, to deliver next-generation aircraft by 2035. On 5 July, the Prime Minister reaffirmed the UK’s commitment to promoting co-operation and collaboration between the UK and Italy, with Italy’s Prime Minister Giorgia Meloni, and on 6 July between the UK and Japan, with Japan’s Prime Minister Kishida. It was agreed that the security of the Euro-Atlantic and Indo-Pacific are indivisible. His Majesty’s Government are committed to ensuring the security of the Indo-Pacific, working closely with our allies.

For the UK, this aircraft will sit at the heart of a wider system, networked and collaborating with a range of aircraft, including the F35, and broader military capabilities. It will use information systems, weapons and uncrewed collaborative combat air platforms to complete the capability. Replacing the capability provided by Typhoon, this system will sustain the UK’s operational advantage. In addition, GCAP will attract investment into research and development in digital design and advanced manufacture processes, providing opportunities for our next generation of highly skilled engineers and technicians.

The signing of the convention on the establishment of the GCAP International Government Organisation, known commonly as GIGO, by the parties of the United Kingdom, Japan and Italy took place in December 2023 and was conducted by the respective defence secretaries of the three nations. The GIGO will function as the executive body, with the legal capacity to place contracts with industrial partners engaged in the GCAP. Through the GIGO, the UK will lead on the development of an innovative stealth fighter jet with supersonic capability and equipped with cutting-edge technology, to facilitate collaboration with key international partners that will raise the profile of the UK’s combat air industrial capacity.

The GIGO headquarters will be based in the UK, employing personnel from the UK, Italy and Japan. The chief executive and director posts shall be filled by nationals of different parties, according to a mechanism that shall preserve a balance between the parties. Given the nature of the GIGO as an international defence organisation, the Ministry of Defence, with support from the FCDO, has been leading on trilateral engagement and negotiations on its establishment.

The convention, once in effect, will enable closer collaboration between the parties—being the Governments of Japan, Italy and the UK—and support the development of His Majesty’s Government’s defence capabilities, stimulated by development of the UK-based headquarters. It will enable further collaboration with key industry partners, with the headquarters supporting hundreds of jobs, working in close partnership with Rolls-Royce, Leonardo UK and MBDA UK, and with hundreds of other companies from across the UK in the supply chain to deliver the GCAP.

This Order in Council is a statutory instrument and forms part of the secondary legislation needed to confer legal capacity and privileges and immunities on the GCAP International Government Organisation. It accords certain privileges and immunities to the organisation’s personnel and the representatives of the parties to the convention. This order was laid in draft before Parliament on 23 May 2024, is subject to the affirmative procedure and will be made by the Privy Council once it is approved by both Houses. Subject to the approval and ratification, the treaty would enter into force on the deposit of the last instrument of ratification, or acceptance of the parties. This is anticipated to be autumn 2024, to meet the 2035 in-service date.

This order confers a bespoke set of privileges and immunities, to enable the GIGO to operate effectively in the UK. The Government consider these privileges and immunities both necessary and appropriate to deliver on the interests and commitments that the UK has towards the organisation. They are within the scope of the International Organisations Act and in line with UK precedents. The privileges and immunities conferred on agency personnel and representatives are not for their personal advantage but are in order to ensure complete independence in the exercise of their functions in connection with the GCAP. To be clear, agency personnel have no personal immunity if they commit a crime, and there is a clear carve-out ensuring that they have no immunity in any vehicle incident. These immunities in respect of the GIGO cover immunity from suit and legal process, inviolability of premises and archives, and appropriate tax exemptions and reliefs in relation to its official activities.

In respect of representatives of the parties and staff, the provisions cover functional immunity and an immunity waiver. Additionally, the order includes an exemption from the legal suit and process immunity in the case of a motor traffic offence or damage caused by a motor vehicle. This is a standard clause included in statutory instruments and treaties, providing for privileges and immunities.

To conclude, the support for the GIGO’s establishment ensured through this order is a unique opportunity to showcase UK leadership and innovation in the combat air industry on a global stage. Through the GIGO, the UK will collaborate with its international partners on the development of an innovative stealth fighter jet and facilitate collaboration with key international partners that will raise the profile of the UK’s combat air industry. The security of the United Kingdom will always be of paramount importance to this Government. Defence is central to both UK security and our economic prosperity and growth, including by harnessing the strength of our well-established defence industries. This GIGO is key to GCAP, and the UK continues to make positive progress with our partners Japan and Italy. I beg to move.

[Lord Howell of Guildford (Con)]

My Lords, I declare an interest as in the register. Behind this necessary and detailed order lies an enormous project, one of the biggest ever, which we are to undertake with Japan and Italy. We are talking about billions of pounds involved. This is only a small part of it but the importance of the bigger picture is colossal. Behind that lies a weaving together of the most advanced parts of Japanese and British industry in a way that I find immensely encouraging and that we have been working towards for years. We reached a peak of co-operation at the end of the last century, but it rather fell away in the first 10 or 15 years of this one. Now, the scene is much revived, and there are enormous gains for Japan and ourselves. Japan is our best friend in Asia, as they used to say; and I do think Japan still sees us as its best friend in Europe. There are enormous opportunities for prosperity in this country.

All I am asking of the Minister, who introduced this very clearly indeed, is that if there are any bumps along the road, any postponements or any difficulties arising out of interpretation of this order, please could they be handled with the utmost consideration of that wider picture, the sensitivities on both sides and the fact that an enormous amount is at stake? No aircraft will fly for 11 years. It is a long way ahead, and we have many challenges to pass through, and world conditions will probably change enormously by the time we get there. I am sure what I am saying is obvious to the Minister and her government colleagues and I ask to be forgiven for reiterating it. There is a great deal at stake.

Commonwealth Parliamentary Association and International Committee of the Red Cross (Status) Bill [HL]

Lord Howell of Guildford Excerpts

2nd reading
Monday 29th July 2024 Lords Chamber

[Lord Howell of Guildford (Con)]

My Lords, I will talk entirely about the Commonwealth Parliamentary Association part of the Bill. I declare my interest, having had a long-standing concern for and interest in all Commonwealth affairs over many years.

At first, the Bill may seem a little small or marginal, compared with some of the vast issues we are grappling with internationally at the moment, but from small things often surprisingly large consequences flow. It may well be that we are dealing here with something that looks minor but could lead to very great changes in the way our own affairs are managed and our position in the world is established.

We had a very good Second Reading on the Bill on 17 May. I was just rereading what I and my colleagues said then. It is a bit of a Groundhog Day, because the truth is that one could perfectly get away with just repeating the speech of 17 May and probably no one would notice. In fact, there is a serious aspect to this, and a serious case for starting again—it was sunk by the general election.

There is a new urgency in this whole area—it is important for your Lordships to recognise that, and I am sure they do—because the Commonwealth network, which is vast and extends to 56 nations, with a queue of others wishing to join, is the biggest network of any kind on the entire planet and is changing very fast, as are overall world conditions. There is a need for us to recognise at every opportunity the enormous effects of these changes, which are taking place at this moment. It is not just trade, which is often cited as the main issue—trade and values are extremely valuable, of course—and it is not just that all the great growth of the next 30 years will be in Asia and driven by organisations like the Comprehensive and Progressive Agreement for Trans-Pacific Partnership, which we have just joined and half of whose the members are, incidentally, Commonwealth. It becomes clearer every day that it is a security issue, and our position in the Commonwealth and the position of our representative organisations concerned with the Commonwealth, such as the CPA, are becoming more and more intertwined.

One has to be pretty blind nowadays not to understand that the Chinese are busy hoovering up influence throughout the entire Commonwealth—through Asia and the small islands of south-east Asia, Africa, the Caribbean, Latin America, and everywhere else. The Chinese are there and are taking an enormous interest—sometimes, I fear, a greater, more detailed, more expert interest than we ourselves take and have taken—in the progress and affairs of many Commonwealth countries, large and small.

Do we sit back and say, “That’s far away and doesn’t matter”? Are we entitled to shrug our shoulders and say that the Commonwealth has had its day? I do not think so at all. In fact, because of certain fundamental changes, the entire Commonwealth network is becoming infinitely more important to security; first, through the changes in the law of the sea—it is about 20 years old—which gave every island, however small, the rights of law of the sea on the shelves surrounding them, and in effect pock-marked the entire oceans not with the freedom of oceans that we believe in but in a series of controlled zones and areas going right across the planet. This is something the value of which, and the potential weaponry behind which, the Chinese have welcomed.

Secondly, there is the fact, which is just dawning on people, that war will be fought increasingly not with vast aerodromes and airstrips—although, as we know, the Chinese are building them in the South China Sea—but with drones. It is drones that are just holding the line for the Ukrainians at the moment—they will not hold it for very long unless they are further equipped—and it is drones that can be launched from tiny little islands and areas of land throughout the Commonwealth and can suddenly create an entirely new pattern of defence challenges.

Those are two reasons why we need to watch what is happening throughout the Commonwealth and what the Chinese are up to. I very much hope that the new Labour Government recognise this danger. I am sure they will, perhaps a little more vividly than the Government of the past 14 years did, with their other preoccupations. This is an emerging role. Certainly the time has come to recognise that the parliamentary aspect of this is increasingly important.

As the world, the Atlantic relationship and the European relationship change around us, as we reposition, I hope that Labour will understand the need to and will seek to bring this whole process of the Commonwealth and its changing and evolutionary features much nearer to the centre of our national affairs and our national strategy. From a desperately small start, more countries in Africa are seeking to join the Commonwealth. Two or three joined recently, and there are said to be three or four more anxious to do so. This is not a dying club but a growing club, and I hope that the new permanent members will be mentioned.

Yesterday, in this House, a noble Lord mentioned one tiny little non-country—Somaliland. It is a disgrace that that country, which is full of vigour, operating in very difficult circumstances, as separate from Somalia, does not even have the status of a nation. It is treated as some sort of pariah, some difficult and unacceptable break in the pattern of international affairs. I hope that those in the new Government who are interested in the Commonwealth will look at the issue of Somaliland again.

The Bill not only reminds us that the Commonwealth is very much part of the future, as the late Queen mentioned: she called it an entirely new conception and in many ways the platform of the future, which statistically it literally is, because 60% of its 2.6 billion people are below the age of 28. We are looking at taking a tiny step today that helps our Parliament, and all parliaments, to assert and develop their role in the world that is to come.

We in our Parliament are hopelessly underequipped in an age of vastly expanding executive power in a state that is incredibly weak—it is large but weak—and our Parliament is finding itself perhaps ill-equipped to perform even the basic functions that a populous age demands. In that sort of age, we very much need to have every kind of strengthening we can—to strengthen our own Parliament and to work with the rest of the parliaments in the network, about 53 of them, in ways that ensure that they all play their role.

In a strange way, as populism arrives everywhere because people are now empowered by carrying in their pockets the power to project their views, baked or half-baked, around the world, and every challenge to government can be mobilised with an enormous impetus that did not exist even 10 years ago, parliaments now have the task of improving the way they work and call everything to account and improving the way in which populism is filtered and executive tyranny and executive dominance are effectively held in check.

We stand in the middle between the forces of incoherent populism and the temptations of the Executive to act in their own threatening way. We could be seeing parliaments move into a new age. All the parliaments of the Commonwealth countries are now better placed as a result of a Bill such as this, which in Britain gives the CPA legal status as an international organisation. This is a positive result that gives parliaments a bigger role in a new digital age.

I have one final reflection. This is about people; it is not just about government institutions. That is why diplomats, including our FCDO, which labours splendidly in many areas of international diplomacy, find it difficult to cope with and to understand the huge significance of the Commonwealth in our future position. Why? It is because it is not just governmental. Large parts of it operate at every level in the interest of every group and every one of the 2.6 billion people in the Commonwealth. That is difficult for a diplomat to grasp: that there are forces at work outside of government control. Many Commonwealth Governments and leaders may differ from day to day and argue about specific issues. A lot of them do not necessarily agree with what the British Government have done or are doing in many important areas.

Nevertheless, the Commonwealth is becoming stronger all the time, because what is pulling it together is more effective and more forceful than what is pulling it apart. It is rooted in the ancient principles emanating from this old nation of ours, established painfully over centuries: free speech, parliamentary government and democratic practices—not just elections but behaviour in democracies, by which I mean upholding human rights, courtesy, honesty, presenting issues to the people, respect, good manners and other qualities which you cannot put into law and yet which make a democracy work, or not work in some cases. Of course, above all, we are bound together by the very wide usage of the common language of English, which is now the protocol of the planet and carries within it all the values which a language enshrines.

We are going to find that the Commonwealth will play a larger, not a smaller, role in the future international networks of the parliaments of this planet. This Bill brings that future, clouded though it may be by the present turmoil and troubles, a little nearer, and it deserves our strongest support and commitment. I welcome it very strongly indeed.

Russia: Sanctions

Lord Howell of Guildford Excerpts

Tuesday 21st May 2024 Lords Chamber

[Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton (Con)]

The noble Baroness makes a good point. There has been an effect on Russian revenue because of the price cap, but a lot of sales are still going through, using shadow tankers, and into other markets. One thing we are trying to do here to make sure that refined product does not leak back into the UK is to make sure that all importers of oil and oil products into the UK provide proof of origin to relevant enforcement authorities to demonstrate that the goods are not of Russian origin. We will do that, but, as I said in my earlier answer, there is probably more we can do with other countries and allies to chase down this shadow fleet wherever we can.

[Lord Howell of Guildford (Con)]

It is of course true that the revenues for Russia from all fossil fuel exports are down considerably. However, against that, crude oil on the high seas is going up, for the simple reason that Russia cannot export processed products and therefore is concentrating on crude oil. Would it be possible to get directly at the swarm of ships on the high seas that the noble Lord, Lord West, pointed out to us by pressing to reduce the price cap from $60 to $30? That would at one stroke reduce Russian revenues and reduce the possibility of these leaky and dangerous ships wandering around the globe.

Commonwealth Parliamentary Association and International Committee of the Red Cross (Status) Bill

Lord Howell of Guildford Excerpts

2nd reading
Friday 17th May 2024 Lords Chamber

[Lord Howell of Guildford (Con)]

My Lords, I declare an interest as president of the All-Party Parliamentary Group on the Commonwealth. Like others, I am greatly looking forward to hearing the valedictory speech from the noble Earl, Lord Sandwich. I cannot quite understand why he is going, actually—he seems to be quite a young man to me. His speeches are very young indeed, and of course we shall miss them, because he covers the whole world with great acumen and perception.

Like others, I warmly welcome the Bill. I shall talk entirely about the Commonwealth Parliamentary Association aspect and leave others to deal with the ICRC. I know it may not excite headlines, but there are some important messages about our future and the world ahead contained in this legislation. I congratulate Dame Maria Miller on her persistence in bringing it forward—because of course it is not a new Bill or a new idea—and I congratulate the noble Baroness, Lady D’Souza, on promoting it in her excellent opening speech.

There are those who belittle the Commonwealth as a yesterday affair, but this really betrays a total misunderstanding of the way in which the world is going and the Commonwealth is evolving, and of its centrality to Britain’s position in an utterly transformed world. The CPA is a network within an even bigger—indeed, gigantic—network covering almost a third of humankind. Our late Queen called the Commonwealth an entirely new conception and

“in many ways the face of the future”.

Obviously, it is so statistically, since 66% of its 2.6 billion members are under 29. Far from declining or failing, it is actually growing in membership, with more states applying or interested all the time. In fact, it has become, and has been described by experts as, a haven for independent nations, large and small, young and older—the so-called “neo non-aligned countries”—in what is seen as a divided world of great power hegemonies, from both of which they want to stay as clear as possible.

In a multipolar and populist-driven age, international organisations are becoming much less the monopolies of Governments and remote officialdom and far more the province of popular involvement and influence of peoples as well as Governments—that is, of soft power and understanding as against openly aggressive positions and disputes. So here is an increasing middle ground between citizens and the state, the public and the Executive, with dwindling trust on either side. On that middle ground sit parliamentary institutions of many shapes and sizes. So it is vital that Commonwealth Parliaments should have their proper status and platform in the changing global democratic architecture, both drawing from it and giving strength to it, as the noble Baroness, Lady Taylor, rightly emphasised. The Bill greatly helps to consolidate that status.

I know that diplomats, even in our own great Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office, are sometimes puzzled by the Commonwealth’s status, being half a people’s affair, half governmental and official. They are puzzled by where and how it fits in to the transformed international order, if order is what we call it. The Bill will remind everyone that in this new landscape, the associations and alliances of peoples that endure will be those that are voluntary, like-minded, not overcentralised, and generally upholding the rule of law, implemented by independent judiciaries.

Maybe Commonwealth Governments and leaders differ and argue, as they do, on specific issues, but what unites them is now becoming stronger all the time than what pulls them apart, because it is rooted in the ancient principles emanating from this old nation of ours, established painfully over centuries; namely, free speech, parliamentary government and democratic practices, which of course means not just elections but the behaviour of democracies, by which I mean the upholding of human rights, courtesy, honesty in presenting issues to the people, respect, good manners—very important—and many other qualities you cannot actually enshrine in law but are essential to make democracies and parliamentary systems work. Of course, most of the Commonwealth is bound by the common language of English, which is now the protocol of the planet.

Parliaments will pay a bigger role in preserving our freedoms in the future, or at least they will if they reform themselves, adjust to the new age of internet governance and use much smarter methods to call the Executive to account than we do at present. We will find that the Commonwealth will play a larger, not a smaller, role in the future international networks of the parliaments of this planet. This Bill brings that future, clouded though it may sometimes seem by the present turmoil and troubles, a little nearer and it deserves our strongest support and commitment, without doubt.

Carbon Budget Delivery Plan: High Court Ruling

Lord Howell of Guildford Excerpts

Wednesday 8th May 2024 Lords Chamber

[Lord Benyon (Con)]

The noble Lord asks a very detailed question. The third carbon budget ended in 2022, so I do not think that issues such as Covid will have been particularly relevant to that. We exceeded that by 15%. The noble Lord outlined some of the most difficult areas that we have to tackle: transport, housing, and agriculture. Agriculture is currently responsible for about 12% to 15% of our emissions, and that will grow as a percentage of our emissions as other sectors decarbonise, which they can do more easily. It is incredibly difficult. Defra, working with the Climate Change Committee and the Department for Energy Security and Net Zero, is seeking ways in which we can absolutely make agriculture play its part in reducing our emissions.

[Lord Howell of Guildford (Con)]

My Lords, is there not something a bit strange about this whole debate? I am sure that the High Court ruling was made correctly on the basis of all the evidence before it, but achieving net zero on all electric delivery plans has, in fact, hardly started. About nine-tenths of our total energy use is yet to decarbonise. How can anyone possibly know at this stage whether these plans are sufficient? It cannot be done.

[Lord Benyon (Con)]

We have to work with the Climate Change Committee to show that they can be. Interestingly, the judge said in his judgment that the assessment involved

“an evaluative, predictive judgment as to what may transpire up to 14 years into the future, based on a range of complex social, economic, environmental and technological assessments, themselves involving judgments … operating in a polycentric context”.

I had to look that one up: it means “many centres” but I am not quite sure how it applies here.

My noble friend is absolutely right that we have go across a range of different sectors to deliver on our carbon reductions, so it makes good economic sense to do so, as well as complying with the law.