Academies Bill [HL]

Lord Greaves Excerpts

Monday 28th June 2010 Lords Chamber

Moved by

[Lord Greaves]

128: After Clause 4, insert the following new Clause—
“Community facilities
(1) An Academy order must include provisions which make available for community use some or all of the school’s facilities.
(2) Such provisions shall not be fewer and on less advantageous terms than those which have been available prior to the application being made for an Academy order.
(3) Such provisions may be made by means of a contract or contracts with a local authority or other non-profit making or commercial body.
(4) “Local authority” in this section means a county, district, unitary or parish council.”

[Lord Greaves]

My Lords, Amendment 128 stands on its own. It appears to be obligatory for everyone who now speaks to refer to the lateness of the hour. All I can say is, with 10 groups still to go, we ain’t seen nothing yet.

Amendment 128 is clearly a Committee stage probing amendment. It returns to the question of the relationship between the school and its surrounding community, which featured in amendments to which I spoke last week. This is about community facilities that are provided by the school. There has been much pressure on schools for a long time to share their facilities with the wider community. It is something that has been increasing slowly because it is not easy for a school, administratively, to do this; it is not easy to arrange. However, some schools have for a long time provided educational facilities or the accommodation for such facilities in their buildings. More often, the use of sports facilities, such as sport halls, tennis courts, pitches and so on, is provided. I think that many of the new Building Schools for the Future schools have had built into their funding agreements the provision of facilities for the wider community. They are an important part of the place of a school within its community.

Amendment 128 suggests, first, that academies, wherever and whoever they are, should, as part of their agreement, make a commitment to providing at least some of their facilities for the wider community. That should be built into the agreement so that academies cannot walk away from it. Secondly, the facilities available should not be less overall than they were before the school became an academy. Preferably, they should be better. The position should not get worse for the wider community. Thirdly, the amendment draws attention to the way in which schools often come to arrangements with local authorities of various kinds—from the county council down to the parish council—to do this jointly. In many cases, what appears to be a simple facility, such as a children’s play area, can be more complex. The children’s play area might be provided by the parish council or the district council but is on county council—that is, school—land, which would transfer to the academy under these arrangements. The use of those recreational facilities needs to be continued. The amendment highlights all those issues and I look forward to the Minister’s reply. I beg to move.

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[Lord Greaves]

My Lords, I thank my noble friend for that encouraging response and for the fact that it will now be in Hansard if nowhere else, which at least can be quoted back at the Government if it turns out that in some cases schools are trying to renege on these matters. Perhaps I may add that, yes, I know Roberts Park. I think that I was five years of age when I was sat in a thunderstorm in a shelter in Roberts Park and I began to contract the symptoms of measles. I remember it very well indeed. I am not quite sure what that has to do with academies, but it is certainly to do with Roberts Park and me. I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.

Amendment 128 withdrawn.

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Moved by

[Lord Greaves]

160A: After Clause 7, insert the following new Clause—
“Powers and duties of local authorities: oversight and monitoring of Academies
(1) The Secretary of State may by order appoint a local authority as the body responsible for the oversight and monitoring of Academies in its area or part of its area.
(2) An order under subsection (1) may be made for all Academies in the area of a local authority or for one or more types of Academies.
(3) Such an order must be made if the number of Academies of a particular type in the area of a local authority is at least ten or twenty five per-cent of the total, whichever is the smaller, unless the Secretary of State considers after consultation with a local authority that there are special circumstances that make such an order impractical in that particular case.
(4) The Secretary of State may make regulations concerning the operation of the powers and duties of local authorities under this section.
(5) An order made under subsection (2) and regulations made under subsection (4) are subject to annulment in pursuance of a resolution of either House of Parliament.”

[Lord Greaves]

My Lords, I shall speak also to Amendment 160B in this group. The two amendments cover important and fundamental issues that it is probably too late to discuss in detail: however, they are still fundamental and important. I do not claim that these are perfectly honed amendments that could go into legislation: they are an attempt to set down principles and issues that are important. They probably indicate my lack of detailed knowledge of education legislation. Nevertheless, the two issues are clear, and these are probing and speculative amendments about them.

The first amendment refers to the powers and duties of local authorities in relation to the oversight and monitoring of academies and clearly suggests a role for them in intervention in, and challenge of, underperforming academies. It does not propose any change to the basic powers and freedoms of academies. It suggests that, over a period, the role of supervision and oversight of academies should transfer from a national body—from the Young People’s Learning Agency or whatever other national body the Government of the time decide to use—to local authorities.

If there are a few hundred academies, having this role in the hands of a national body will be feasible and practical and will probably work. However, the more academies there are, the more the creation of a large national bureaucracy to carry out this work will become unrealistic and impractical. If there are 5,000 or 6,000 academies, then it will not seem sensible for one national body to be responsible for oversight, and it certainly will not fit into the Government’s mantra of localism. One might say that it is an old-fashioned state socialist way of doing things, but I do not want to get under the skin of the Labour Party too much, so I say that very gently.

My proposal also fits in with the remaining residual local authority roles in relation to pupils who are, or have been, attending academies. In this Committee we have been discussing roles relating to transport, special needs, excluded pupils and so on. There is clearly a residual local authority role in relation to academies or in relation to pupils attending academies, and it would be sensible if there were not two different bureaucracies dealing with the same schools.

Clearly, we are talking about light-touch oversight. As I said, I am not talking about in any way changing the status or freedoms of academies. However, it seems to me that if oversight is put into the hands of bodies which are closer to the academies, are more local and are more likely to have close relations with them for all sorts of reasons, they will have the knowledge and close links that will make it much easier for them to intervene effectively if and when things go wrong in a school. If and when that happens in an academy, there will have to be outside intervention—we all understand and accept that—but how much easier it will be if this is done by people who already have close working relationships and links with those schools rather than by people charging down perhaps several hundreds miles from Whitehall. Alternatively, the YPLA, or whatever other agency is involved, might have to set up local or regional branches to do this work. There will then be a risk that local authorities will, in a sense, be duplicated by the regional and local branches of the national agency. As I understand it, that is exactly what this Government are trying to avoid. Certainly they seem to be taking an axe to quite a lot of the existing regional bureaucracies—something that I shall not complain about too much—but it seems to me that setting up new ones would be the wrong direction in which to go.

I am not suggesting that the detailed mechanisms in Amendment 160A are the right ones. I am not necessarily arguing for them; I am putting them on the table for a discussion about the way in which it would be sensible to move as more and more academies are created over the next few years, if that is indeed what happens.

Amendment 160B is rather different. It would put local authorities in the driving seat in the process of converting existing schools into academies. This is a probing amendment to ask the Government some fundamental questions. First, what are their ultimate objectives in converting schools into academies? What is their strategy? What do they think the position will be in five or 10 years’ time? Do they expect that ultimately all or most schools will convert to academies—perhaps all schools except those in need of intervention in terms of special or other measures? Is that their ambition?

Several times, the Minister said that the Government want to give all schools the opportunity to apply to be academies. That implies that they want all schools to become academies eventually. If that is their position, we are moving towards a situation in which the local management of schools, which took place in 1988 and subsequently, will be taken to its more logical conclusion and all schools will be given a substantial degree of independence. Any relationship that they have with the local authority will be turned upside down and schools will decide whether to pay for local authority services, rather than having some services provided automatically.

The noble Baroness, Lady Morris of Yardley, said in a powerful speech at Second Reading that this is the latest in a series of initiatives to make a special category of schools. She referred to technology colleges, grant maintained schools and so on. So far, all those initiatives have resulted in a minority of schools getting special status. Is this the same thing again: that a minority of schools will become academies and that all the rest will continue as usual? Do the Government think that that will happen, after a period of years, or do they envisage every school becoming an academy? I do not think that the Government have made that clear at all and I do not know whether they have a clear idea. I suspect that Michael Gove has a clear idea about it, but I am not sure whether the Government collectively have. That is a fundamental question and it is one reason for tabling this amendment.

The Government are cutting local authorities out of the process of the creation of academies. That will result in a lot of resistance from local authorities, which will attempt to persuade many schools not to become academies. The same will apply to diocesan authorities. The alternative is to put local authorities in the driving seat, letting them supervise, organise and attempt to get some order and sense into the conversion process in their areas.

In Committee, we have talked a little about the transitional period during which an authority might have half of its schools as academies and the other half which it will still have to look after. Perhaps the latter will eventually be a minority, a rump of schools, which inevitably will be the less successful schools, or perhaps the mediocre, satisfactory schools. It is not clear whether the process will work in an efficient and economical way. During this transitional period, it will cost local authorities more money as they will have to provide all the services, but for fewer schools. I believe that putting local authorities in charge of the process will mean that they will be able to manage the whole thing more efficiently and economically. If you give local authorities a job, they will become enthusiastic about it; they will do it; and I believe that you will end up with more academies in a more sensible, organised way than by doing this nationally and trying to lock local authorities out of the process, as that will result in tensions, difficulties, inefficiencies and extra costs.

The wording of these amendments is not necessarily the answer, but these fundamental issues have to be faced, even at this time of night. I believe that the Government are missing a huge opportunity if they do not use local authorities more fundamentally in their ambitious programme to convert schools into academies. I beg to move.

[Lord Hill of Oareford]

I am grateful to my noble friend Lord Greaves. I listened to his comments with care and he made some extremely interesting points about oversight. I agree that one has to keep that under review as the situation develops. It goes to the heart of the question about the future role of local authorities, which we have touched on previously in Committee. I recognise that the coalition Government have not yet come up with a complete or satisfactory answer on what it should be, other than saying that we are clear that local authorities should have a strong strategic role.

The issue of it being a revolving picture is related fundamentally to my noble friend’s Amendment 160B. Perhaps I may answer his question directly by reference to Baldrick in “Blackadder”: I do not have a cunning plan around how many schools are likely to convert. I know that my noble friend may find that hard to believe, but it is true that our approach to the legislation is to say to schools that they have the opportunity: it is a choice rather than a compulsion. We do not have a clear view of the landscape in five years’ time because the shape of that landscape will be determined by the response to this permissive legislation.

We see this as being an opportunity that we want to give to schools rather than requiring them, or a local authority acting on their behalf, to convert or plan for conversion. Linked with that is the desire to be able to seek academy status quickly. It may indeed be that over time local authorities will develop a new role more akin to commissioning. I think that was the thought behind my noble friend’s amendment and the 2005 White Paper laid out thoughts on how the role of local authorities might develop. As the department and the Government more generally reflect on the proper role of local authorities and how to work with them—

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[Lord Greaves]

My Lords, I am grateful to the Minister for the honesty in his considered reply. I am a little alarmed by the idea that Baldrick may be in charge of government education policy, but I do not think that he quite said that. If I cite him correctly, he said: “We have not come up with a clear answer to the role of local authorities”. The more that we have considered the Bill, the more obvious it has been to me—this point was made by some of my noble friends—that it would have been a good idea for it to have had pre-legislative scrutiny to try to bottom out some of these issues and at least to present us with some considered alternatives on these important matters.

The future role of local authorities in relation to schools is vital. Clearly, a few hundreds of academies can be created without, in most areas, severely affecting the role of local authorities, but not once it gets into the thousands. I think that there are about 20,000 schools in England. If 5,000 or 6,000 of them, a quarter of them, converted to academies, which is clearly possible under the criteria that the Government propose, during the next four or five years, that would have a severe effect on the viability of local authorities—at least in some areas, because their creation would tend to be geographically patchy.

I believe that we are to get a schools Bill or an education Bill which will be a bit fatter than this Bill later this year. If so, this issue should certainly be returned to at that time, if not before. I am grateful to the Minister for saying that he will reflect on the matter. Finally, the answer to the noble Baroness, Lady Morgan of Drefelin, as to why we are rushing this, is that we have a Secretary of State in a hurry. That is not necessarily a bad thing, but if it results in bad legislation with all sorts of unintended consequences, we will have to sort them out in due course.

[Baroness Thornton]

Before the noble Lord withdraws his amendment—which I expect he will do rather than test the opinion of the Committee on the matter at this time of night—does he have a view on what is the tipping point? If he does not, perhaps he would like to ask his noble friend what he thinks the tipping point is before a local authority becomes unviable.

[Lord Greaves]

That is the $64,000 question, or perhaps more than that at present exchange rates. I do not know. We will all have a view on that. It will depend on how big or small the local authority is. A big local authority, such as Lancashire, could probably survive quite a lot of its schools becoming academies, because it would still have a critical mass, but if a small local authority—a small London borough that has only a few schools—is left with just two or three primary schools, it will be in serious trouble.

[Lord Hunt of Kings Heath]

Is the point not round the other way? If the cumulative impact of a lot of independent academies in an LEA area is to render problems for the education system, what happens if the LEA no longer has any intervention powers? How is the public interest in a community to be upheld?

[Lord Greaves]

I am beginning to feel like the Minister, the way that I am being cross-questioned by the Labour Party. I am not a Minister; I am not a member of the Government. My first amendment faces exactly the problems that the noble Lord just raised. They are serious problems. The answer has to be properly thought out. It may take longer than this Bill to think about, but it ought not to take very much longer. Having said that, I have said more than enough tonight and I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.

Amendment 160A withdrawn.