EU: UK Membership

Lord Giddens Excerpts

Thursday 24th October 2013 Lords Chamber

[Lord Giddens (Lab)]

My Lords, I join other noble Lords in congratulating the noble Lord, Lord Shipley, on having initiated this debate. I especially add my congratulations to the noble Lord, Lord Wrigglesworth, on his maiden speech, which was witty, meaty and suave. By “suave” I do not mean to criticise; I mean that his speech was very assured. When I gave my maiden speech, I was trembling all over and could hardly hold my papers. The noble Lord is a welcome addition to this House.

As this debate has shown, all debates in this country about the European Union now take place in the shadow of a future referendum on Britain’s membership. To me it is of the utmost importance that there should be a full and thorough public debate on this issue and I am worried that this might not happen—that is the burden of most of what I have to say. There is a real danger that Britain could sleepwalk towards exit, with many of the public simply being unaware of the seriousness and complexity of the issues involved.

I am a committed pro-European—indeed, something of a passionate one. My noble friend seemed to indicate that we do not exist. We do exist. Many people like me feel an emotional, not just pragmatic, commitment to the European Union and what it has accomplished for the continent over the past several decades. However, I am not one of those who hold that it would be economic suicide for Britain to quit the Union. There are scenarios in which the country could survive quite well, perhaps even prosper, although its influence in the wider world would be sharply and irretrievably reduced.

Leaving the EU would not be the marginal issue that many citizens appear to think. It would be the most consequential decision that the country had taken for 60 years and involve a protracted and wrenching adjustment. To me, leaving the EU would mean the reinvention of the country. The idea that the UK could simply leave the EU and become the same as it was in 1950, going back to having some kind of autonomy in the wider world, is simply ridiculous. An enormous process of reinvention of identity would have to occur. If it did, the country could in principle be successful, but such a course of action should not be contemplated without intensive and, above all, informed public discussion. I hope that this discussion in your Lordships’ House will be the first of many that will involve the wider citizenry, not just a proportion of people in this establishment.

The immediate economic problems to which Britain would have to respond if it left are easy to state but, as my noble friend Lord Desai said, not as easy to quantify as many on either side of the debate seem to think. I hesitate to disagree with a colleague from the LSE, especially an economist who admits to the fallibility of economics—that is something to behold—but I spent the past six months of my life studying the economic statistics of the EU and I know that some of the assertions that are made are robust and some are not. For example, we know that the single market has made a fundamental contribution to the overall wealth—the GDP—of the EU, including this country. The calculation of a 2.2% net addition as a result of the single market before the 2008 crisis is robust. What are not so robust are the employment statistics. We do not really know. Between 2 million and 3 million jobs here depend on the EU, but the counterfactuals are so difficult to state that no one can simply assert that bluntly. It has been demonstrated, however, that the financial services industry would inevitably suffer if the UK left the EU. One can forget the idea that Britain could become a sort of offshore banking centre like Singapore. London could perhaps do that if it seceded from the rest of the UK, but there is no chance of that happening. There is no doubt that leaving the EU would have a serious impact on the financial services industry.

I wish to make the more subtle argument that most of the important economic losses would stem from factors that are not wholly economic. Here I would reverse the conventional wisdom about Britain losing sovereignty as a result of its membership of the EU. It can be demonstrated that every member of the EU gains sovereignty from being a member and does so when acting alone—not just as a member. This can be done easily by reference to the proposal mentioned by the noble Lord, Lord Shipley, for the EU-US free trade agreement. That will be the single most important source of wealth and job generation for both sides that has ever been established. Could anyone think that Britain outside the EU, feebly knocking on the door and timidly asking to be let in, represents more sovereignty than if we were an active participant in the European Union when it negotiates such an agreement? That would be ridiculous.

I conclude with questions for the Minister that lie behind everything that I have been saying and to which I should like a response. What concretely will the Government do to ensure that the open and informed debate that the country needs will actually take place? What concrete measures will they take to make sure that citizens are directly involved?

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Newby (LD)]

My Lords, I thank all noble Lords for their contributions to the debate today and, in particular, the noble Lord, Lord Shipley, for initiating it. It is a huge pleasure to be able to congratulate my noble friend Lord Wrigglesworth on his maiden speech. As his speech demonstrated, he speaks with great authority about the economy of the north-east, and with great authority more generally. The noble Lord, Lord Giddens, described his speech as witty, meaty and suave. It struck me that these are fitting epithets for him as a whole.

[Lord Giddens]

My Lords, I do not want to damage the life of the noble Lord in the House of Lords, because the word “suave” might chase him forever, but it was intended as a compliment, so perhaps that subject should be dropped—in a suave sort of way.

[Lord Newby]

I took it as a compliment.

I first met my noble friend 32 years ago, when I went to work in the Whips Office of the SDP. Like my noble friend Lady Falkner, I was one of the workers and he was a grandee. Therefore, it gives me particular pleasure now to be his Whip and to make sure that he is in every respect a model Member of your Lordships’ House—as I am sure he will be.

The Government are clear that membership of the EU is in the UK’s interest. The EU helps to advance UK national interests, influence and values. It provides freedom for British people to live, work, study and retire in Europe, and supports UK jobs, prosperity and growth through increased trade, both inside the single market and through free trade agreements.

The principal economic benefits of our membership of the European Union can be categorised under the headings of trade through our access to the single market, encouraging investment and promoting competition, thus driving down prices for British consumers. I shall deal with each of those three principal areas in turn.

The UK’s EU membership supports jobs, prosperity and growth in this country through increased trade. Our membership gives UK companies access to the world’s largest single market, with a GDP of about £11 trillion and 500 million consumers, without customs or tariffs. Free trade agreements through the EU lower trade barriers and increase access to markets. If the EU completed all trade deals currently under negotiation, EU GDP could be increased by about £275 billion. In particular, independent analysis commissioned by the Government has found that the net benefits to the UK of the EU-US free trade agreement currently under negotiation could add up to 0.35% to the UK’s economy. I absolutely agree with my noble friend Lord Watson that our ability to conclude such free trade agreements in a world where the WTO is a declining influence is immeasurably enhanced by being part of the EU. The idea that you can go into such negotiations with the same strength as a single country is surely completely mistaken.

Europe remains the main destination for UK exporters, with just over 50% of our goods exports destined for Europe in 2012. That has real benefits for UK businesses: 80% of businesses believe that the single market delivers concrete benefits to them and the Department for Business, Innovation and Skills forecasts that the EU will remain the UK’s most important market for at least the next 10 to 20 years. That strong trade relationship due to our membership delivers clear employment benefits, with one in 10 UK jobs to some degree dependent on trade with the EU.

The CBI study and others which have been quoted show truly remarkable levels of support for continuing EU membership. Underneath the fact that 80% of companies, broadly speaking, say that they wish us to remain in the EU, it is interesting that 47%—almost half—said that without EU membership, they believe that it would be more difficult to hire skilled workers. It is not just access to the market but access to workers.

I say two things about trading elsewhere to the noble Baroness, Lady Noakes. First, as several noble Lords have said, there is no trade-off between trading to the EU and to the rest of the world. The more a company trades in one part of the world, the more likely it is to be good at trading somewhere else. Secondly, we want many more companies to start trading, and the logical place for them to start, particularly if they are small, is with the EU. For a small company thinking about foreign trade, the prospect of doing it in Brazil, China and India is almost a bankrupting prospect. You do not have the time. You do not have the money. You do not have the knowledge to do it. The only logical place to start is the EU. That will continue to be the case.

Secondly, being part of the single market helps UK businesses to attract inward investment from both inside and outside Europe, enabling them to operate on a more efficient and global scale. The UK is the top destination in Europe for inward investment, attracting 21% of all foreign direct investment projects in Europe last year.

Our access to the single market is a key motivation for foreign investment in the UK economy, with half of all foreign investors in 2010 citing access to the single market, among other factors, as a key reason for investing in the UK. A number of noble Lords have dwelt on this point. The noble Lord, Lord Shipley, made the point that Nissan, which provides 6,000 jobs in his region, is there because of our EU membership. If we were to leave, the number of jobs would shrink.

The City of London Corporation, in the representation made to us which the noble Lord quoted from, said that many EU European banks locate in London to access the markets in which London has accrued specialities. Many non-UK EU firms choose to list on the London Stock Exchange in order to access the capital on offer there, directly channelling capital to European businesses from London. If we were not members of the EU, the idea that the City would be able to continue sailing serenely along with no threat from competitor centres in the EU seems implausible.

The single market also encourages competition and innovation across the EU, bringing down prices for consumers and increasing productivity in the UK. We are clear, however, that the EU could do better to become more competitive to deliver further economic benefits. That is in the interests not just of the UK but of all member states. The EU must become more competitive if we are to continue to improve the standard of living which Europeans currently enjoy, firstly by completing the single market in services, particularly in the digital and energy sectors. I give the noble Lord, Lord Liddle, an absolute assurance that the Government are committed to promoting the single market. It has been a centrepiece of our engagement with the EU. When my colleague in another place, Ed Davey, was at BIS he set up a group of like-minded countries, which eventually involved a majority of EU member states, to promote the single market in an effective way. It shows, incidentally, how the UK can take a lead in the EU even though we are not in the eurozone area. The completion of the single market is a central goal of the Government.

The second important role in making the EU more competitive revolves around agreeing the international trade agreements to which I have already referred. Finally, we are committed to cutting red tape to allow the engines of growth in the eurozone and across the EU the space that they need to flourish.

Completing the single market by removing all barriers to trade is estimated to increase UK GDP by about 7% and prices would fall by approximately 5% due to increased competition. In this tough economic climate, this would obviously provide a real boost if we could achieve it for UK businesses and consumers.

On the international free trade agreements with both advanced and emerging economies, progress continues to be made. The landmark deal reached between the EU and Canada, to which my noble friends Lord Maclennan and Lord Watson of Richmond referred, will benefit the UK economy and businesses by over £1.3 billion a year. As I have already said, the potential deal with the US would dwarf that.

Cutting red tape from the EU is crucial to allow small businesses to start up and then expand. Last week, six senior business leaders presented a report to the Prime Minister on reducing the burden of EU regulation; the noble Lord, Lord Liddle, referred to this. Their findings are based on research carried out across Europe. They have found that there is potential to save EU businesses billions of pounds by improving the regulatory environment. Their aim is not to abandon all regulation; they want to reduce the burden on small and medium-sized firms who create the vast majority of new jobs in Europe, and employ two-thirds of the workforce. The Government support their views, and are committed to ensuring that EU regulation does not hold UK businesses back.

The noble Lord, Lord Liddle, referred to a number of proposals in this report. The one which seems to be a classic of the kind of change we need, and which should be achievable, is the proposal to press for an urgent increase in the public procurement thresholds which significantly hold back small businesses in bidding for public sector work.

As the noble Lord, Lord Shipley, pointed out, these views are increasingly being accepted across the EU. The days when greater harmonisation was almost seen as an article of faith by member states are now over. We are in a strong position to take a lead in making EU regulation proportionate and growth promoting.

The noble Lord, Lord Liddle, asked whether the Government were speaking with one voice in terms of the single market and in terms of the report to which he and I have both referred. I can assure the noble Lord that the Government are speaking with one voice. He described the Government’s attitude as an assault on social Europe. This is a grotesque caricature of both the Government’s position and the proposals in the report. It does not reflect the Government’s attitude in any respect.

One question that is commonly asked or implied is whether the UK, given its semi-detached nature, is able to make progress with the kind of reform agenda to which I have been referring. We believe that we are and that we can. For example, we have secured the first ever exemption of micro-businesses from new EU proposals from the start of this year. We have also secured agreement on a single European patent after 23 years of EU negotiation, with the new patent court based in London for key pharmaceutical and life sciences sectors. This will be an important engine of growth for the UK’s R&D sector.

We have persuaded the European Commission to review the body of EU legislation to identify existing obligations from which micro-businesses could be exempted. Finally, we have delivered the first ever real-terms cut in the EU’s seven-year budget while protecting the UK’s rebate.

We had an interesting discussion, principally between the noble Baroness, Baroness Noakes, and the noble Lord, Lord Desai, about—