Rule of Law: Law Officers

Debate between Lord Garnier and Lord Keen of Elie

Tuesday 15th September 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Keen of Elie (Con)]

My Lords, I was not concerned with either ambiguity or problems within the withdrawal agreement Bill; others may have taken a different view.

[Lord Garnier (Con)]

My Lords, may I take it from his earlier answers this afternoon that my noble and learned friend agrees that the law officers’ first duty is to the rule of law, their second is to Parliament and their third—and very much their third—is to the Government, and that respect for the rule of law encompasses ministerial obligations under both domestic and international law? The Bill that we are considering disapplies sections of a treaty that we have freely entered into. How does that fit with the rubric that I have just read out?

[Lord Keen of Elie (Con)]

On the first point, I entirely agree that the role of the law officers requires them to address the rule of law, Parliament and government, and in that order, without any difficulty. As regards the present Bill, it is designed to provide for a contingency, which will operate only in the event of us having to respond to a material breach or fundamental change in obligations, and then only by bringing forward regulations that will require the approval of this House. Unless and until that occurs, there is no breach of the treaty; there is simply a means by which the treaty obligations can be addressed in the event of a breach.

Covid-19: Prisoners

Debate between Lord Garnier and Lord Keen of Elie

Thursday 16th July 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Keen of Elie]

My Lords, the scheme is there to ensure that there is a safety valve for capacity within our prison system. It has worked in that respect. The primary issue has to be public protection. We have to take great care over the early release of those who have been imprisoned, particularly for offences that might otherwise inflict further danger on the public. At present, the Government have fully implemented compart- mentalisation in 98% of prisons and introduced strong measures to protect not only prisoners but staff. The remaining matters of compartmentalisation simply await the completion of temporary accommodation.

[Lord Garnier (Con) [V]]

I refer to my interests in the register. While recognising the point that my noble and learned friend has just made about security, can he tell us what progress has been made in implementing the report’s second recommendation—namely to streamline and expedite the early release scheme to create the headroom needed to take active steps to protect life? Does he agree with the report’s suggestion that:

“Given numbers of medically vulnerable people who need to be shielded”,


we should

“overhaul the process of release on compassionate grounds and review and halt the misuse of prison custody as a place of safety”?

[Lord Keen of Elie]

My Lords, we are not going to rush into reviews of the kind that my noble and learned friend refers to at this stage. However, we are of course anxious to build on improvements within the prison system, for example by building on some of the recommendations in the report, such as those concerned with the key worker scheme and with greater prisoner engagement and peer support.

Royal Commission on Criminal Justice

Debate between Lord Garnier and Lord Keen of Elie

Wednesday 15th July 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Keen of Elie]

My Lords, as the noble Lord may be aware, the terms of reference of a royal commission cannot be altered. It is therefore critical that we determine and finalise those terms of reference with care. A small team of civil servants in the MoJ is working to establish the royal commission and it anticipated that they will transition to make up the secretariat for the commission, which we hope to have operational from the autumn.

[Lord Garnier (Con) [V]]

My Lords, I refer to my interest in the register. When my noble and learned friend the Minister last dealt with this question on 3 June, he was not able to be very forthcoming but, since then, the backlog of trials in both the Crown Courts and the magistrates’ courts has got even longer. A royal commission will not help, but there are plenty of Crown Court recorders and deputy magistrates’ court judges ready and able to assist. Why are they not being deployed?

[Lord Keen of Elie]

My Lords, thanks to the hard work of professionals across the criminal justice system, more than 150 courts have remained fully open to the public throughout the pandemic. By the middle of this month, we anticipate that all court centres will have reopened.

Prison Sentences

Debate between Lord Garnier and Lord Keen of Elie

Monday 29th June 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Garnier (Con) [V]]

My Lords, I refer to my interest in the register as a trustee of the Prison Reform Trust. Does the Minister accept that short-term sentences of imprisonment are in normal times of little use in protecting the public and of no use in reforming the offender, who is frequently a mentally ill drug user? However, now they are positively counter- productive. The impact of Covid-19 means that prisoners are in their cells for 23 hours a day, essentially living in a shared lavatory with no access to purposeful activity, fresh air or rehabilitation courses. Should not all custodial sentences of six months or less be immediately suspended, with strict supervision conditions attached?

[Lord Keen of Elie]

The Court of Appeal recently set out in its judgement in the case of Regina v Christopher Manning that

“Judges and magistrates … should keep in mind that the impact of a custodial sentence is likely to be heavier during the current emergency”,


and we acknowledge that to be the case. However, that does not alter our position with regard to the ability of the judiciary to impose short sentences.

Royal Commission on Criminal Justice

Debate between Lord Garnier and Lord Keen of Elie

Wednesday 3rd June 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Keen of Elie]

My Lords, we are confident that the chair and members of the Royal Commission will be able to take into account the lessons that we can learn from dealing with this crisis in the context of the prosecution of crime, imprisonment and parole.

[Lord Garnier (Con)]

I declare my interests as set out in the register. There is plenty that a royal commission on criminal justice could consider but it is likely to take a long time for any of its recommendations to be implemented by the Government. Our criminal justice system is under dreadful strain and its problems have been aggravated by the Covid-19 crisis. Does my noble and learned friend agree that we need to deal with the growing backlog of criminal trials, improve the state of our court buildings and prisons, and ensure that those lawyers who do publicly funded criminal law cases are paid a decent wage?

[Lord Keen of Elie]

The criminal justice system faces challenges, which is why this royal commission is so important.