Broadband and Mobile Coverage
Debate between Lord Gardiner of Kimble and Lord Inglewood(10 years, 9 months ago)
Lords ChamberRead Full debate Read Hansard Text
Lord Gardiner of Kimble
My Lords, I should first declare that I own a few BT shares—I emphasise, a very few.
BT is in that situation because Openreach has so much of the infrastructure. There are arrangements and regulatory environment requirements through Ofcom on price and also on other operators using BT property. There are very important safeguards for the consumer through Ofcom, and that is why we are in the right position.
Lord Inglewood (Con)
My Lords, while welcoming the extra money that my noble friend has explained to the House, will he tell the House whether the additional rollout will take place in a more flexible and competitive manner than has hitherto characterised the rollout thus far?
Lord Gardiner of Kimble
My Lords, I certainly think that the rollout is gathering pace in those parts of the country that have not had the advantage that other parts have. We certainly want to ensure that the Government’s investment, and indeed the commercial investment, is sufficiently flexible that as many people as possible gain advantage as soon as possible.
Leveson Inquiry
Debate between Lord Gardiner of Kimble and Lord Inglewood
Lord Gardiner of Kimble
My Lords, I do not think the noble Lord will be surprised if I say that Lord Justice Leveson did a very thorough job for the nation. There was great merit in what he was wrestling with because he was trying to balance the freedom of a responsible press—which we all cherish—with putting in place something that enshrines that but ensures that there is redress and gives confidence to the public. I am therefore afraid that I disagree with the spirit of what the noble Lord is suggesting.
Lord Inglewood (Con)
My Lords, regardless of one’s views about the merits or otherwise of any particular charter, does my noble friend not agree that the freedom of the press is a matter of the highest constitutional importance? Will he therefore consider an important request that this House be given the opportunity to debate the text of the charter that is now being finalised? Even if we cannot take part in the legislative aspects of it, there is a political aspect that ought to be debated on the Floor of the Chamber.
Lord Gardiner of Kimble
My Lords, I understand my noble friend’s position, particularly given that he chairs the Communications Committee. However, we have debated the cross-party charter and the Leveson report on many occasions, and I have been delighted to answer—or seek to answer—questions on them. I sense that the public are seeking some conclusion to this and that is why the cross-party charter is going before the Privy Council on 30 October. It is about trying to get some resolution so that we can move forward and set the structure in place.
Press Regulation
Debate between Lord Gardiner of Kimble and Lord Inglewood
Lord Gardiner of Kimble
I think that I have already explained to your Lordships why there is a week when further work could be undertaken. As I have said, the right honourable Member for Peckham is very much part of those discussions. I hope that noble Lords opposite will be reassured that this is an honest venture to see if there are ways in which the points that the committee made can be incorporated. If not, the 18 March charter will remain.
The noble Lord used the word “beaten”. I want to reassure him that we have reached the point where, on Friday, the cross-party charter will be available to parliamentarians, the public and the press. The Privy Council will meet and the intention is to seal the cross-party charter on that date.
Lord Inglewood (Con)
My Lords, will the Minister clarify for me—I am chairman of a regional newspaper company—whether the new charter, if I may call it that, will be discussed by Parliament between the time it is placed in the Libraries and the time that the Privy Council decides to adopt it?
Lord Gardiner of Kimble
My Lords, my understanding is that these are, as I say, points to do with the arbitration system, which are matters of detail. The intention is not to reopen this because all that will do is produce the situation that noble Lords have quite rightly berated me about. This takes us into avenues of reopening matters and, in a way, your Lordships and the nation feel that we have reached a point now where we have to resolve the matter.
Leveson Report: Media Plurality
Debate between Lord Gardiner of Kimble and Lord Inglewood
Lord Gardiner of Kimble
My Lords, I thank my noble friend Lord Sharkey for this short debate on how the Government plan to take forward the issues of media ownership and plurality in the light of Lord Justice Leveson’s report. This clearly is an important issue, and plurality is vital for a healthy and well informed democracy. It is equally clear that we must get this right, and I have listened very carefully to the many comments made by your Lordships today.
In September 2011, this Government publicly commissioned Ofcom to provide advice on the issue of media plurality, which was then considered by Lord Justice Leveson. I think the noble Lord, Lord Stevenson of Balmacara, put some sharp focus on the fact that it may not have been the largest part of the report, but that does not mean to say that it is not a very important part of it, as other noble Lords have indicated.
As was acknowledged by Lord Justice Leveson, the broad constraints of the work that the inquiry had to undertake meant that there was not sufficient time to look at these matters in detail. As a result, Lord Justice Leveson’s recommendations in this area were,
“at the level of desirable outcomes and broad policy framework, rather than the technical means of achieving those outcomes”.
That, I think, recognises that plurality is a complex issue: it is concerned with what is available in terms of the number of different media voices but also with what information people consume. As was identified by Lord Justice Leveson, a number of questions flow from this. The first relates to scope—for example, how far plurality rules apply to online as well as to more traditional news platforms. A second question relates to measurement—the number and range of metrics that provide an indication of the level of plurality and, indeed, sufficient plurality. I agree with the noble Lord, Lord Stevenson of Balmacara, that there is a complexity about these matters; it is not a quick fix. A third question relates to remedies—the range of available remedies, whether structural or behavioural. A fourth question relates to triggers for action—what might trigger a review of plurality or action, such as the imposition of a remedy. I also agree with the point raised by the noble Lord about whether periodic plurality reviews or an extension to the public interest are most likely to provide a timely warning of and response to plurality concerns that develop as a result of organic growth.
The Government have committed to seek views on these issues and on how to take forward Lord Justice Leveson’s recommendations. I am very conscious of the strictures of the noble Lord, Lord Whitty, and my noble friend Lord Inglewood on these matters, but I can assure noble Lords that this will be a thorough and well thought-out piece of work, and the process will begin this summer. It will build on Ofcom’s advice and Lord Justice Leveson’s recommendations in this area. I also emphasise, conscious of what my noble friend Lord Inglewood has said, that the work of your Lordships’ Communications Committee will provide another valuable source of evidence and analysis. I believe, having discussed this with colleagues, that this is the reason for the manner in which the response was couched, not because there was any lack of courtesy or understanding, and that this work will be immensely valuable to the considerations.
My noble friend Lord Sharkey raised the idea of a revenue cap, as indeed did other noble Lords. At times, the Opposition have raised this as well and have made similar recommendations. As the Ofcom report highlights, this may well present difficulties. The dynamic nature of the UK’s communications sector means that at this stage it will be hard to find a generally accepted consensus on a definition of the UK’s cross-media market, or have the same view of its revenue and of the revenue accorded to firms operating with it. There is more work to do in that area.
One aspect raised by a number of noble Lords, including my noble friend Lord Stoneham—the noble Lord, Lord Stevenson of Balmacara, used the words “in a changing world” that I was particularly struck by—is that we have seen such changes to the face of the media over just the past decade. There is the online sector and we will see all sorts of other innovations that we have not thought of yet. That is why I think that Lord Justice Leveson concluded that these should be part of any market assessment of plurality. Within 10 years, Google News and Facebook have become two of the three most used online sources for news after the BBC. I have, of course, noted what my noble friend Lord Sharkey said, but we need to address the influence of the providers of news generally. Nevertheless, consumers are benefiting from these new services, so it is important that in any new plurality regime such innovation continues to be supported.
I understand that the Opposition have proposed a cap on the UK’s national newspaper circulation. I am as yet unclear whether this would be defined by print run or by readership, but as the whole media market is changing, that may not actually address the issue in the most skilful way. In a world in which people get their news from multiple sources and use a range of different platforms to access news content, the extent to which newspaper circulation correlates to influence may potentially become less clear.
I was also very interested in what the noble Lord, Lord Parekh, had to say on ownership, about some of the experiences from the Indian media, and the six points he made. The point is that the trend of change introduces other new challenges. While exposure to a great range of new sources is undoubtedly positive, an increasing array of information also heightens the possibility that people will use internet search engines to modify selectively their own news intake. Indeed, search engines support this by prioritising news content based on a user’s previous searches. This is why Ofcom highlighted that the availability, consumption and impact of news media were relevant measures of plurality. The report made clear that an inflexible prohibition on market share was not currently advisable. It stated that,
“setting absolute limits leaves no room to take account of the broader context, and this creates a risk that it is not possible to address issues of commercial sustainability and innovation in an appropriate manner”.
Lord Justice Leveson similarly concluded that no compelling evidence was put forward to support arguments for any fixed cap on media market share.
It is for those reasons that I used the words “quick fix”. Colleagues may not appreciate them, but I think that a quick fix is not sensible and we need to proceed with care. That is why Lord Justice Leveson recommended that work should be undertaken with the industry on a measurement framework for plurality in order to achieve as great a measure of consensus as possible on the theory of how it should be measured. In many communities, the issue will be the extent to which there is a regional source of news alongside the BBC. Some expressed concern about the growing predominance of our national news market by foreign news media. We need to think very carefully as to the extent to which any new plurality regime might in practice give the foreign news media a competitive advantage. These issues all warrant a level of detailed consideration that was not possible in the context of Lord Justice Leveson’s inquiry.
In all this, clearly we must not forget the strength of the UK’s news sector. We have world-leading journalism and a wide range of trusted providers and editorial voices. I think the observations of the noble Lord, Lord Lipsey, on European interests will strike home but, to be honest, the Government are not likely to expect or permit Brussels to take on what is a UK responsibility. However tempting it may be and however strongly people feel, we have a responsibility to make sound decisions in the best interests of the country as a whole. This necessarily entails due process and engagement with those concerned to minimise the risks of unintended consequences—for example, around innovation and growth.
I want to assure your Lordships that work is in hand. I am conscious that a number of noble Lords, and perhaps all noble Lords here, want to have some indication that the Government take this issue seriously. It is serious, which is why it needs to be done properly. The Government will set out this summer how they plan to seek views on these issues and how to take forward Lord Justice Leveson’s recommendations.
Lord Inglewood
Before my noble friend the Minister sits down, perhaps I might make two points having heard his interesting remarks. First, can he confirm that he will write to me in response to my remarks? Secondly, can he tell the Committee when the last day of summer comes?
Lord Gardiner of Kimble
I am of course always very happy to write to my noble friend and I shall confirm the points that I made. I will reply to his other point by saying that I know when the first day of autumn is.