Lord Soley
To ask Her Majesty’s Government what progress they have made towards putting into effect the proposals made by Lord Justice Leveson in his report into the culture, practices and ethics of the British press.
Lord Gardiner of Kimble (Con)
My Lords, on 11 October, a final draft of the cross-party charter on self-regulation of the press was published following further discussions by the three main parties. These discussions helped to make the charter more workable. The cross-party charter will be on the agenda for a Privy Council meeting on 30 October.
Lord Soley (Lab)
I thank the Minister for that reply. After the 20th anniversary of my Private Member’s Bill in the House of Commons, now reborn as Leveson, this is like travelling at the speed of light, although not everyone would agree with that. What do the Government propose to do if the newspapers decide not to co-operate with the new body? What talks have they had with the newspaper industry about that possibility?
Lord Gardiner of Kimble
My Lords, the first thing I will say is that the noble Lord is indeed a patient Lord. However, our purpose is to seek a voluntary process, and we very much hope that the press will, through its independent, self-regulatory body, apply to the recognition panel so that what has happened before does not happen again and we have the right mechanism in place. I emphasise that it is voluntary for the press to apply to the recognition panel. However, as your Lordships know, Parliament has—following through from the Leveson report—made very clear, through the Crime and Courts Act, what the position would be for those who transgressed.
Baroness Bonham-Carter of Yarnbury (LD)
Did the Minister see the Guardian/ICM poll last week, which demonstrated that the public are solidly behind external regulation of the press, underpinned by an outside body? Does he agree that the newspaper publishers should listen to the public, as well as to the victims and Parliament, and support the cross-party charter?
Lord Gardiner of Kimble
My Lords, I very much agree with my noble friend. In the end, we have a duty to the public and to the victims in particular. We have a responsibility to try to set in place a position where this does not happen again and which gives confidence to the public. I am aware of the polls—polls can do a range of things. I hope the press will see that the cross-party charter is designed because of good will and that we wish to protect the freedom of the press while ensuring that people have proper redress.
Lord Sugar (Lab)
My Lords, throughout my business career I have always tried to view things through the eyes of the average man or the average consumer. With that in mind, the Leveson inquiry seems to have been a complete and utter waste of time. I see no change whatever in the attitude of the printed media, a view borne out by the recent behaviour of the Daily Mail—
Lord Sugar
It is coming. The Daily Mail is a newspaper whose only true facts are the price and date on the front page. Does the Minister agree that Lord Justice Leveson should have recommended a proper regulator, the same as we have in the television industry? Self-regulation is not possible with the printed media.
Lord Gardiner of Kimble
My Lords, I do not think the noble Lord will be surprised if I say that Lord Justice Leveson did a very thorough job for the nation. There was great merit in what he was wrestling with because he was trying to balance the freedom of a responsible press—which we all cherish—with putting in place something that enshrines that but ensures that there is redress and gives confidence to the public. I am therefore afraid that I disagree with the spirit of what the noble Lord is suggesting.
Lord Inglewood (Con)
My Lords, regardless of one’s views about the merits or otherwise of any particular charter, does my noble friend not agree that the freedom of the press is a matter of the highest constitutional importance? Will he therefore consider an important request that this House be given the opportunity to debate the text of the charter that is now being finalised? Even if we cannot take part in the legislative aspects of it, there is a political aspect that ought to be debated on the Floor of the Chamber.
Lord Gardiner of Kimble
My Lords, I understand my noble friend’s position, particularly given that he chairs the Communications Committee. However, we have debated the cross-party charter and the Leveson report on many occasions, and I have been delighted to answer—or seek to answer—questions on them. I sense that the public are seeking some conclusion to this and that is why the cross-party charter is going before the Privy Council on 30 October. It is about trying to get some resolution so that we can move forward and set the structure in place.
Lord Grocott (Lab)
Does the Minister detect something that I have not yet detected? The Leveson inquiry came about in the first place as a result of the most appalling treatment by the print media of individual innocent members of the public. It was that outrage that led to the inquiry. In the kind of almost academic exchanges that are going on, I get no sense at all that the leaders of the print industry share or understand that outrage. Can the Minister simply report to the House and reassure me that the Government feel the same sense of outrage that the overwhelming majority of the British people feel?
Lord Gardiner of Kimble
I sense from our exchanges in your Lordships’ House that there is a very strong feeling here which reflects what the nation feels. This is why the Prime Minister was absolutely right to start on the path of asking Lord Justice Leveson to look into these matters, because they should not have happened and responsible people could not possibly justify them. I say to those who are very senior in the press: I see no demons in what is proposed by the cross-party charter. This is about trying to have two very important things in our nation’s life: a responsible free press that can scrutinise and look at all that we and our institutions do, but will also safeguard the rights of the citizen.