Assets of Community Value (England) Regulations 2012

Lord Gardiner of Kimble Excerpts

Monday 23rd July 2012 Grand Committee

[Baroness Thornton]

My Lords, I have a slight sense of déjà vu. Here we are again discussing this matter, with me supporting the Minister and congratulating her on bringing forward these regulations, as she promised in the course of the Localism Bill. I have one or two questions for clarification.

I agree with the noble Earl that these are quite complex regulations but I also accept what the Minister said. Having read the part about the Land Registry three times, I still do not really understand it and can see that there are some complex interests to balance—those of landowners and those of the legitimate aspirations of local community organisations. That is, as it were, where we came in. I think these regulations do that.

My concern, if I have one, is whether it is too complicated for community organisations to access easily. We will not know that until the whole thing is rolled out and starts to work, or not. Therefore, I ask the Minister whether there is any intention to monitor—in, say, two years’ time—the effectiveness of this legislation and what the issues are for landowners and community organisations.

My second question is on a point of clarification. The Explanatory Notes outline the characteristics of community organisations. I read the Explanatory Notes first because they were more accessible than the regulations. They go into how you recognise what different community interest groups are. Therefore, do the regulations take account of unincorporated organisations? The regulations say that unincorporated community organisations can bid for community assets, which is exactly as it should be. However, if the Explanatory Notes say one thing and the regulations say something else, it is very important that local authorities and those whose land or property is in question are completely clear that unincorporated community organisations have the right to claim an interest in the community asset. It is really a question of clarification, which I am sure can quite easily be resolved. I am assuming that the reasons for which this instrument was drawn to our attention in terms of public policy issues relate to the amount of resources and time that local authorities are expected to put into it. The noble Baroness gave an explanation for that.

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble]

My Lords, first, I declare my interests as a farmer and landowner as detailed on the register. I echo the comments of my noble friend Lord Cathcart as to the energy and hard work that has been put into ensuring that sense prevails with these regulations following many discussions.

I raise three minor but important points which I hope my noble friend the Minister will help the Grand Committee with. They relate, first, in paragraph 14, to compensation regulation. Owners of listed assets are subject to time limits throughout the assets-of-community-value process; indeed, that is enforceable in law. Yet the local authority is currently under no timetable-limited obligation to respond with a written reason. I wonder whether it would not be reasonable that there should be some understanding that the local authority should be responding in reasonable time; I put that at about six weeks. There may be procedures whereby a local authority should respond, but I would welcome clarification from my noble friend.

The other questions relate to relevant disposals in Schedule 3 and the Crichel Down rules. It gets perhaps rather too technical for me, but my understanding is that, in order to conform with the Crichel Down rules, there should be in the regulation an inclusion of land acquired under threat of compulsory purchase. Can my noble friend clarify that point?

Finally, I am concerned as to the definition of “undertaking”, and how restrictive that may be, particularly the suitability in terms of transfer between related companies, which particularly relates to farms and estates. I would like my noble friend to assure us that this matter will be kept under review to see whether what I understand is a rather restrictive interpretation of this matter might be addressed in future years if there was a problem, particularly in the rural sector.

[Lord Reay]

My Lords, I declare my interest as a landowner, and associate myself with what my noble friends Lord Cathcart and Lord Gardiner have said—in particular my noble friend Lord Cathcart in calling for clarification on what is meant by the “recent past”. As my noble friend has pointed out, we debated this at great length during the passage of the Localism Act. The Government listened to the objections that were made at Second Reading and subsequently introduced substantial modifications to the original proposal. This was welcome, and my noble friend made great efforts on our behalf.

We understood where the Government were coming from politically. However, to draw up, maintain and manage a list of community assets is still a substantial bureaucratic requirement for local authorities, with inevitable costs. We wondered whether all of that was necessary in order to provide a right to bid for a local body or group whenever a well loved pub, shop or other amenity was threatened with disappearance. Anyway, that is the system that we have now got in place. At least the eligibility of assets for inclusion was narrowed down to a much more acceptable level from the original proposal. That was a development which we much welcomed, and I thank the Minister again for that.