Commercial Rent (Coronavirus) Bill

Lord Fox Excerpts

2nd reading
Thursday 27th January 2022 Grand Committee

[Lord Fox (LD)]

My Lords, I do not think I have spoken in a debate before Second Reading in the Moses Room before and I do not think I have spoken when the department staff almost outnumber the speakers, which probably points out why we are in the Moses Room.

Many of the issues I am going to cover have already been covered by previous speakers. I am quite relieved about that. Given the vast experience in local government of one speaker and the experience in the property market of the other speaker, I am rather glad that I am covering some of the same ground, because we appear to be in the right place.

Covid has shocked the commercial lives of our villages, towns and cities across the country. As we have heard, the Bill is designed to help deal with one of the big aftershocks, rent debt. The Minister said earlier that there is £6 billion of rent debt. To put this into context, all town centres and high streets have been hit, but businesses with physical premises—bricks and mortar—tend to have suffered the most. For example, some shops have lost close to one year’s trading in value terms over the course of the Covid pandemic.

I am sure the Government will say that help has been on hand on during this process, which it was, but, meanwhile, as we have heard, rent has been accruing, Covid loans will soon need to be repaid and there is much catching-up to be done. It should be noted that the Covid shock has come on top of other difficulties that already make trading hard. The noble Earl, Lord Lytton, alluded to some, as did my noble friend. They include supply chain issues, difficulties hiring and retaining employees, wage inflation and energy costs. So this Bill is welcome, and the Minister will be pleased to know that we will be more in lock-step than we were during the previous Bill on which we worked together.

The Bill is important not least because a lot is staked on the way businesses develop going forward. Communities will be deprived of their focal points and their services if we get this wrong. Local jobs will go, and a deprivation spiral will sink further. The Minister set out the number of businesses that are currently in arrears—some 60%—which is falling, but what is the geographical breakdown? While “only” 40% of leisure businesses are still in arrears, are they focused in particular communities? My suspicion is that they are, so the concentration of damage will be higher in some areas than in others. Frankly, they will be the areas that have already experienced more problems. This is really important, and it is coming at a time when we are all being urged by the Government to reopen our economy.

As set out, there is a balance to be established between the needs of tenants and those of landlords. As has been said, it is in nobody’s interest for great holes to open up across real estate. It is right that we should remember that not all landlords are large corporates. They are private individuals or small firms and, as my noble friend Lord Shipley pointed out, in many cases they are local authorities, which are quite big players in some communities. When the Minister kindly met me, he spoke about consultation. I should have asked whether local authorities have been explicitly consulted on this issue. I would appreciate an answer to that.

When it comes to striking a balance, we support binding arbitration as a way forward. Therefore, the role of the arbitrator will be crucial, and we heard comments along those lines. The Minister told us that he has consulted bodies which will serve up the necessary arbitrators and said that they are satisfied with the way this Bill is going. Although the Minister reported that they are confident that this process will be doable—I do not know whether it is straightforward—I echo some of the comments made on the complications. Not only will there need to be an assessment of what has been lost, which should be a relatively straightforward calculation, but there needs to be a reasonable sense of business prospects. This is a much harder call. That is not only because of the hardening business environment that I have just described but because consumer and work habits have changed. We do not know to what extent these changes are permanent and how they will develop, but we do know that those changes will influence the trading prospects of many of the businesses that will come up for discussion. The definition of “viable business” will by no means be clear-cut in a lot of cases. That has already been pointed out. My noble friend asked about challenging a ruling on the viability of a business, which I think will be an issue that rears its head. How will the department support arbitrators in the definition of “viable business”?

The next point is around the source and supply of arbitrators, which both noble Lords spoke to. It is not clear yet how many arbitrators the Minister believes are necessary, assuming the 7,500 figure is a reasonable estimate. Has that number been matched with the available people? Furthermore, what is the plan for quality control and training of these people? This comes to the point made by the previous speaker. This is a different situation and role. It is a national role, and we want to see equivalent quality across the country.

Does the department have some outreach plan to make sure that the arbitrators are working from the same statistics, for example, inflation estimates? If one arbitrator is using inflation estimates of one level and another is using a different one, their outcomes will necessarily be different. How will they be kept in line? That is just one area.

The Minister outlined that, using the code, we hope there will be a diminishing need for arbitration. In a sense, as he set out, the main purpose of this Bill is to put something in place that will not be used too often. He called it a “backstop”, a term which I was going to suggest, so we are in line on that one. Its presence will hopefully act as an incentive, as we have heard, to drive prior agreement before arbitration is called on. The access process for triggering arbitration is not completely clear to me. I might have missed it in some of the guidelines, but it would be helpful if the Minister could outline how, if I am a landlord or a suffering tenant, that process is triggered.

Like the noble Earl, Lord Lytton, I have concerns about asymmetry. We discussed this when we met. When you have a big landlord and a small tenant, there is a clear opportunity for a mismatch. The Minister was clear when we met that the low cost of entry should prevent this being an issue, but can he explain how other costs will be controlled? How will the ancillary costs of preparing one’s case be limited? It is quite clear that a corporation with a large chequebook has much more firepower in preparing its case for the arbitrator than a small sole trader. Of course, sometimes the mismatch is in the opposite direction. It is not just the cost of entry but the cost of preparing one’s defence or offence in the arbitration process.

Assuming that the Government are successful in maintaining this low-cost, symmetrical situation, how will they communicate the availability of this process to landlords and tenants across the country? What is the communication plan sitting underneath all this?

I do not expect subsequent stages to be long, but I will set out a few questions it would be helpful to answer. What consultation has there been with local authorities? Are sufficient arbitrators available? What modelling has been done and what training and quality control process is sitting under this? Can the Minister remind your Lordships what constitutes an arbitrator? In our meeting he mentioned country solicitors. On reflection afterwards, a reg flag went up, given country solicitors I have known. Are changes planned in the arbitration accreditation process to acknowledge the new nature of this role? Will there be ongoing communication with arbitrators—for example, providing them with not just data and results but case studies of how those results arose, as a previous speaker mentioned—or are they effectively on their own, inventing it every time? What is the process for triggering arbitration? How will the Government go about communicating all this to tenants and landlords?

Even if this Bill is successful and the number of bankruptcies is reduced, there is going to be a waterfall of bankruptcies in our towns, cities and villages across the country. As well as this—and I would like the Minister to acknowledge it—there is other work to be done in maintaining local economies, particularly in the most underprivileged and least well-off areas. This Bill will not be sufficient to keep our way of life running in some parts of the country.

I look forward to hearing the noble Baroness, Lady Blake, and the Minister’s response to these speeches.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Grimstone of Boscobel (Con)]

My Lords, I thank noble Lords for their insightful contributions to today’s debate. We have heard four speeches, all of which were eloquently delivered. The number of speeches was small but they were rich in content, and I congratulate noble Lords on that. I thank the noble Baroness, Lady Blake of Leeds, and the noble Lord, Lord Fox, for their constructive approach to this important legislation and the noble Lord, Lord Shipley, and the noble Earl, Lord Lytton, for the welcome they gave the Bill.

Many issues have been thoughtfully raised, and I will address as many as I can now. On some of the detailed points, I shall write to noble Lords, and I am sure we will come back to them in Committee. That will include the points made by the noble Lord, Lord Shipley, about interest and by the noble Earl, Lord Lytton, about service charges and whether it is appropriate to include them in the award. The noble Lord, Lord Fox, asked about geographical distribution, and I will find out all I can about that and write to him. I can confirm that the consultation on the Bill covered local authorities and their bodies.

I quickly remind noble Lords of what this Bill signifies and what it will achieve. Businesses which could not pay their rent due to the impacts of the pandemic have rightly been protected from evictions, seizure of goods and certain insolvency proceedings. As I said earlier, these businesses have now built up a significant amount of rent debt. I know that noble Lords welcome the fact that many tenants and landlords have been able to have open, transparent conversations, and I am thankful to those willing to be flexible when negotiating on unpaid rent. However, we have heard of plenty of cases where negotiation has been unsuccessful and agreement has not been reached. The Bill’s binding arbitration scheme is a proportionate and carefully crafted solution to these cases. It will provide the commercial tenants who need it the most and their landlords with the clarity and certainty they need to plan ahead and recover from the pandemic. In this way, the Bill will protect jobs—the noble Baroness, Lady Blake, is particularly concerned about the impact on society and jobs that we have seen during the dreadful pandemic—and, we hope, will enable a swift return to normal market conditions.

The noble Lords, Lord Shipley and Lord Fox, asked about the capacity of arbitrators to undertake this work and whether there would be sufficient arbitrators. I reassure noble Lords that we have worked closely with arbitration bodies during the development of the arbitration system. The application process which will permit an arbitration body to be included in the list of approved bodies will require it to evidence its capacity. We will not just take it for granted; it will be considered carefully before an arbitration body is admitted to the approved list. However, I believe our market-based approach of allowing arbitration bodies to set fees will ensure that on the one hand there is enough arbitrator capacity and on the other hand that the scheme is affordable.

On the autonomy of arbitrators, the Arbitration Act guarantees it. We can come back to that again in Committee.

The noble Lord, Lord Shipley, asked how the viability test would be applied. I know that the noble Baroness, Lady Blake, is also interested in this. That is probably best dealt with when are in Committee, where we can go through it in detail. I undertake to do that. The assessment of viability and solvency undertaken by arbitrators is an important step in determining whether relief from payment of rent debt should be granted. I think professional arbitrators will be able to do that. I do not want to disagree with the noble Lord, Lord Fox, about whether country solicitors are capable, but I assure him that someone who is not capable of being the appropriate arbitrator would not be put forward by the arbitration body. I am sure that neither of us would want the wrath of country solicitors to come down on our heads.

[Lord Fox (LD)]

As a point of information, it was the Minister who brought up country solicitors rather than me. Coming from the country, I need to be careful.

[Lord Grimstone of Boscobel (Con)]

I am constantly amazed by the noble Lord’s wit in these debates.

I hope that I can reassure noble Lords that these principles will ensure that the Bill supports businesses that will continue to prosper and contribute to our economy while protecting landlords.

I say to the noble Earl, Lord Lytton, that we will certainly come back in Committee to how the solvency tests will work. I will write with further details of that.

Noble Lords asked about the monitoring of arbitrators to ensure that they apply the principles consistently. First and foremost, arbitration bodies will appoint only arbitrators that are considered suitable to carry out the arbitration as set out in this Bill. An arbitration body also has the power to oversee any arbitration in relation to which it has appointed an arbitrator. So the arbitration bodies are in the front line of ensuring the quality of the arbitrators who will operate under the Bill.

The Secretary of State can request a report from approved arbitration bodies covering the exercise of their functions under this Bill. This report can include details on awards made and the application of the principles set out in the Bill to arbitration that they have overseen.

Noble Lords rightly asked about transparency. There is a requirement for arbitrators to publish the details of awards made, including the reasons behind them. This will show how arbitrators have applied the principles in the Bill to reach their decision. Over time, as noble Lords have mentioned, this will allow case law to be built up.

[Lord Fox (LD)]

Will the department retain the ability to withdraw the accreditation of arbitration bodies in the event that their performance proves to be unsatisfactory?

[Lord Grimstone of Boscobel (Con)]

I am sure that if an arbitration body is not performing satisfactorily there will be a mechanism to ensure that it does not carry on providing arbitrators, but I will check how that operates and include it in the letter that I will write to the noble Lord.

As this process continues, if there is a need to revise the guidance—for example, to clarify or add new information for arbitrators—the Secretary of State is able to do that.

Noble Lords, including the noble Lord, Lord Shipley, my noble friend Lord Lytton and the noble Lord, Lord Fox—it would have been simpler if I had just said everybody—asked about the affordability of arbitration. I think the market-based approach that we have adopted, in which arbitration bodies will set the fee levels, will work in practice. Arbitration bodies have, of course, extensive experience of costing and running schemes such as this; they are best placed to decide on fee levels to make the scheme affordable and accessible for parties, but also to incentivise arbitrators to take on cases and maximise capacity. We have tested the costs of similar arbitration schemes currently on offer in the market, and landlords and tenants in our consultations have both indicated that it is affordable. However, if it turns out not to be the case, Clause 19 gives the Secretary of State a power to make regulations specifying limits on the fees and expenses of arbitrators and approved arbitration bodies, if that is necessary.

The noble Lord, Lord Shipley, asked about opportunities for scrutinising the scheme once it has been implemented. I believe that ensuring that it is properly monitored will be a key aspect of a smooth delivery, and the most crucial way in which we will evaluate the scheme is through the requirement for arbitration bodies to publish their awards—a point I made earlier.

I understand that there may be concerns about the commercially sensitive nature of much of this information but, of course, arbitrators are required to exclude confidential information, including any commercially sensitive information, unless the person to whom it relates consents to its publication.

We really want the arbitration process to be as transparent as possible because, of course, it is in the public interest for it to be so. Transparency will help to establish market expectations of fair outcomes from the arbitration process on rent arrears for different business circumstances. Stakeholders raised questions—noble Lords are right—about transparency, but I believe that the relevant clause in the Bill will address that concern.

Noble Lords asked about consistency. Arbitration bodies will appoint only those arbitrators considered suitable to carry out arbitration as set out in the Bill. These bodies will also have the power to oversee any arbitration in relation to which they are appointed an arbitrator, which will provide the necessary safeguards we all want to see.

In conclusion, I thank all noble Lords who have engaged in today’s debate; it is a shame that we did not have a larger audience to see us in action. We have had informative and erudite contributions and, of course, as always, that is a testament to the wealth of experience in this House. I am conscious that I have not addressed all the detailed points raised by noble Lords but, of course, as well as writing, I am more than happy to meet to discuss any individual concerns as the Bill moves forward. It is a pleasure to be leading the Bill through the House, and I will warmly welcome engagement with noble Lords across the House to ensure that the Bill gives businesses and landlords the certainty and support they sorely need. I look forward to discussing it in Committee.