Shipments of Radioactive Substances (EU Exit) Regulations 2019

Lord Fox Excerpts

Tuesday 26th February 2019 Grand Committee

[Lord Jones (Lab)]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for his exposition. I acknowledge that this is a complex and highly technical subject, but it is important to all citizens. I note on the first page of the document that “competent authority” means,

“in Wales, the Natural Resources Body for Wales”.

On page two, some lines down, it states that “shipment”,

“means the transport from the place of origin to the place of destination, including loading and unloading, of sealed sources”.

Should we presume that this refers to a sea voyage, as opposed to a road or rail journey? The word “shipment”, on paper, seems a trifle ambiguous.

In north Wales there are two nuclear power stations: Trawsfynydd in Meirionnydd and Wylfa in Anglesey, or Ynys Môn. I believe that the former is dormant and the latter is to be replaced, although I understand that plans for the new Wylfa are now on hold, which is a cause for concern across the island. It is not my intention to query those issues as such, but can it be presumed that shipment from plants such as these—should there be a need for shipment—would begin by road or rail? As I said, “shipment”, as referred to on page 2, is a trifle ambiguous. I recollect seeing the transportation by rail southwards from north-west Wales of a flask mounted on a rail-wagon frame. The flask, which was large and possibly made of steel or iron, was engaged within the train in just one wagon and was easily identifiable to people like me in the locality as a flask connected with the plants that I have instanced.

[Lord Fox (LD)]

My Lords, I thank the Minister very much for presenting this statutory instrument. Obviously, this is not just a consequence of the Brexit decision but of the Euratom decision, so I put it on record that we regret that it is necessary. In the debate in the other place, this was billed as the last SI connected to Euratom, although I think the next one is as well, so I am not sure how that works. I know that previous SIs have been dealt with by my noble friend Lord Teverson.

I shall raise a couple of points. First, the Minister was clear that this relates to sealed transportation, yet the Explanatory Notes are clear that it covers both sealed and unsealed transportation, so I am a little confused about that. Certainly, in the debate in the other place, the Opposition Front Bench spokesperson also expressed some concern over how these regulations extend into the unsealed transportation—“unsealed” being vials, for example—of nuclear material. I would welcome some explanation from the Minister of why he chose not to talk about unsealed transportation while the Explanatory Notes are clear on that. Perhaps he could spend some time adding detail to that.

The Minister was clear that this is one-way legislation, which it has to be in that it applies to imports from the EU into the UK. It was clear that this affects about 100 concerns in the UK. On reciprocal travel, I am not aware that there is much material of this nature travelling in the opposite direction, but what is BEIS’s analysis of the traffic in the opposite direction, and what impact would that have were the European Union not to reciprocate in equal measure to the way we have gone about continuing the Euratom process?

The noble Lord behind me—I am afraid I do not know his name—

[Lord Jones]

Jones of Wales.

[Lord Fox]

I guessed it was Wales. The noble Lord mentioned competent authorities, and obviously the ONR is a competent authority to handle this kind of material. What extra competence is required of the environment and natural resource agencies highlighted in the Minister’s speech to manage this process?

Finally—again, this came up in the other place—there was some confusion between the Minister and some MPs in the debate over the ability of this process to continue to track radioactive material as it moves around the United Kingdom. The Minister seemed clear that it was competent to do this, and that was brought into question. The Minister promised to write to the Opposition Front Bench spokesperson on this subject. I am not aware that that letter has gone out but, given that the Minister in the other place saw fit to write on this subject, it would be helpful if the Minister could let us know the content of that letter to underline the competence or otherwise of this process to continue to track these materials as they travel throughout the United Kingdom.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Henley]

I think the less said about last Saturday the better, but that is another matter. I shall start, because of last Saturday, by dealing with the noble Lord’s question, which is pretty straightforward. I can assure him that “shipment” refers to any form of transport. It might have the word “ship” in it, but it also covers trains, which, as he knows, have been used a great deal over the years to move nuclear waste and nuclear materials around all parts of England, Wales and Scotland. Whether by road or whatever, “shipment” covers everything.

I note also what the noble Lord said about Wylfa. Now is neither the time nor the place to go over that again. We hope that something will emerge in due course, but he knows the reasons why that could not go ahead.

I turn to the questions asked by the noble Lords, Lord Fox and Lord Grantchester. On whether the measure covers both sealed and unsealed transportation, I know that my honourable friend Mr Harrington is meeting his opposite number, Dr Whitehead, about that tomorrow. I hope they will be able to resolve whatever uncertainties there were between the two of them on that matter. I hope also that they will be able to follow up the confusion relating to tracking and deal with the letter to which the noble Lord, Lord Fox, referred.

[Lord Fox]

I thank the Minister for that. I realise that his colleague is always right, but do we have any inkling as to how this question will be resolved? In other words, is the Explanatory Note that states the measure deals with “unsealed” as well as “sealed” incorrect, or was the impression given in the other place perhaps misunderstood and the Explanatory Note correct?

[Lord Henley]

My honourable friend is always correct, but, as the noble Lord knows, even Homer nods, and he might not have been quite as correct as he normally is on every occasion. As I said, I would prefer to have that dealt with tomorrow, between my honourable friend and Mr Whitehead.

The noble Lord asked also about the impact on exports and the reciprocal nature of this. I am afraid I cannot give him any figures about how much is going the other way. If there are some figures on that, I shall certainly write to him. The position in relation to UK exports into the EU obviously sits entirely within the EU’s competence after exit. Operators have been advised that they should seek guidance from the EU and member states on any future requirements on exports to the EU. In that respect, I assure the noble Lord, Lord Grantchester, that we will continue to maintain close relations with Euratom, just as relations with the International Atomic Energy Agency remain important. It is keen that we bear in mind the standards that it will wish to maintain in this area, just as we have always done. I made it clear throughout the passage of that first bit of Brexit legislation, the Nuclear Safeguards Act—which I am sure noble Lords will agree seems quite a long time ago—that we would continue to maintain close relations with those bodies, and I make it clear it now. I think it was the noble Lord, Lord Fox, who asked whether this was the last bit of EU exit legislation relating to nuclear matters but then thought that the next instrument also dealt with such matters. The next statutory instrument is not technically an EU exit regulation, so I think my honourable friend was correct in saying that this was the last of our EU exit statutory instruments on nuclear matters. As he is aware, we still have to deal with quite a number of other EU exit SIs and legislation.

I think that deals with almost all the questions noble Lords asked. The final one was on the competence of the various environmental agencies and whether they have the appropriate skills. All the environment agencies have been dealing with these matters already, so there will be no extra burden on them and no extra skills to acquire. They will continue to work in this field.