Hillsborough

Lord Field of Birkenhead Excerpts

Monday 22nd October 2012 Commons Chamber

[Mrs May]

I hear what the right hon. Gentleman is saying, and I understand his concern that other services should not suffer as a result of any requirements being placed on such organisations. I cannot give a commitment across the board at this stage. We are talking to the IPCC about the resources that it will need, and my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Health will be looking at the implications for any health bodies that are involved. We want to ensure that the investigations are as thorough and exhaustive as possible, and we would not wish to put any barriers in the way of that happening, but a significant number of bodies will be involved, and we have to look at the matter very carefully. Specifically in regard to the IPCC, we are already having discussions about any requirements that it might have.

[Mr Frank Field (Birkenhead) (Lab)]

The Home Secretary has said that we are moving towards a point of accountability, and she has mentioned the police. Before she completes her contribution to the debate, will she list the other public and private bodies to which we might wish accountability to be applied?

[Mrs May]

My right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Health will certainly be covering a number of those bodies in his closing remarks this evening. As I have already mentioned, there were issues around the operation of the ambulance service, for example. Further public sector bodies might be involved. Those who are looking at the report are determining which bodies need to be investigated, and the list is currently being compiled. I can, however, commit that we will provide a list for the House at an appropriate point in due course, so that everyone is able to see all the bodies that are involved.

--- Later in debate ---

[Alec Shelbrooke (Elmet and Rothwell) (Con)]

I should like to start by praising the families who fought on and on for 23 years to get to where we are today. I want to talk to the public about the impact of what we are discussing. Football is a great joiner of people. Since I have come to this place, I have developed an excellent friendly relationship with the hon. Member representing Liverpool, Wavertree—[Hon. Members: “Walton.”] That is a good start: I mean the hon. Member for Liverpool, Walton (Steve Rotheram). That relationship comes down to the bond that people gather from being football fans. Although we sit on totally opposite sides of the political divide, we get on exceptionally well through our love of football. Football binds many people together. My sister is an Arsenal fan whereas my brother-in-law is a Liverpool fan, and they live in Sheffield. Quite where on the football spectrum my niece and nephew will end up remains to be seen, but what about the prospect of their going to a football match—something that binds together people who love the game—13 years from now, when they will be 16 and 14, and a terrible incident occurring?

Some people might dismiss this debate as having gone on too long or believe that these matters should not have been dug up again. There are people who have made such comments, but I ask them how they would feel if a family member—a niece or nephew, say, if they do not have children—lost their life going to one of the events that so many people in this country go to, watch, enjoy and love, and were then effectively told that it was all their fault anyway? What if they then saw an establishment war against them, which is effectively what has happened over 23 years?

I came into politics because, I am sure like many people, I wanted to defend people who need to be spoken up for. I have a big thing about bullies; I hate them, yet I see them in so many aspects of life, using their position to bully others. As my hon. Friend the Member for City of Chester (Stephen Mosley) said in his excellent speech, people were bullied into changing their statements. All that came about because people had made a mistake. The police made mistakes, but instead of standing up and admitting the terrible mistakes that they made that day, they tried to push the blame on to those who had no reason whatever to have that blame put upon them. I think that every single person in this country needs to think about that and about the events they go to enjoy together as a family. They should think about how they would feel if a disastrous event took place and they were blamed for what had happened.

I remember being at school when this event happened—I was 13—and hearing some of the comments made the next day about what The Sun had said. Even in south- east England, school children and others were very uncomfortable about the newspaper coverage. Many people went into shock—this was more than a general sense of shock—about what had happened. I remember reading the Sunday newspapers along with my parents the next day, and I clearly recall seeing a picture of somebody being crushed up against the fence. It had a deep impact on me. The following day a newspaper came out with “The Truth” plastered across it, and some accusations were made. Let us remember what they were. It was claimed that people, including children, were drunk. It was said that people were pickpocketing the dead, urinating on dead bodies and attacking police officers. If that was true, why was nobody arrested, as there were plenty of police there? There were plenty of television cameras there, too, recording all the events, but no arrests were made and no evidence ever came forward.

This leads me on to my comments about the chief constable of West Yorkshire, Norman Bettison. I am not standing here today to say that Sir Norman Bettison is guilty of any crime. I am not saying that, but what I am saying is that he edited, as he was asked to do, the video footage of what went on that day. I think that over 60 hours of footage was brought down to 30 minutes. Subsequently, questions have been raised about whether pressure was applied by people such as Norman Bettison when he was the chief constable to get police officers to change their statements. I know that many more speeches today will address that issue directly.

When I look at the press release from the West Yorkshire policy authority, I see that the authority committee referred the matter to the chair of the special committee, whose role was

“to oversee all conduct matters involving chief officer ranks, including the Chief Constable.”

The second press release stated that that committee

“will decide whether any conduct matters or public complaints about the Chief Constable should be recorded and whether any matters should also be referred to the IPCC as a result.”

One charge that the IPCC is looking into is that Sir Norman tried to influence that committee not to refer him. That may or may not be true, but that is one of the charges brought. If the public are to have faith in any report that comes out from the IPCC, they must be absolutely 100% convinced that no undue influence was brought to bear on that process. Frankly, that is the accusation being levelled against it. With someone involved in the investigation who has effectively been charged with involvement in a cover-up now having to face a new charge of trying to influence the police authority, their position must be untenable if the public are to have faith in the report that comes out.

I emphasise again that I am not saying whether Sir Norman Bettison is guilty or innocent, as that is what an investigation is for. What I am saying is that for the public to have faith in any report that is produced, he should either be suspended or, if a mechanism cannot be found, offer his own suspension from duty. He should not take retirement. I have heard Sir Norman’s warm words:

“Recent weeks have caused me to reflect on what is best for the future of policing in West Yorkshire, and I have now decided to set a firm date for my retirement. I hope”,

he said, that his departure

“will enable the Independent Police Complaints Commission to fully investigate allegations that have been raised about my integrity.”

I disagree. I do not think he should take early retirement. I think that his early retirement date should be held until we get to the end of an investigation so that he can be held to account in respect of his current role.

[Mr Frank Field]

Will not the things that the hon. Gentleman has said today make it more difficult to hold the chief constable to account?

[Alec Shelbrooke]

I am sorry, I did not quite catch that.

[Mr Field]

Might not the hon. Gentleman’s wish for somebody to be held to account be made that much more difficult to achieve by the contribution he has just made?

[Alec Shelbrooke]

I would hope not. My point is that if he suspended himself and removed himself from any investigation, the public could have faith in any report that is produced. I did not level the new charge—that he tried to interfere with West Yorkshire policy authority—against him; it was the IPCC that levelled that charge. After 23 years, the public must have faith in any report that is brought out.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Frank Field (Birkenhead) (Lab)]

I am pleased, Madam Deputy Speaker, to have eight minutes.

I brought together the families in Birkenhead most affected by Hillsborough, and they asked me to relay certain messages. This I willingly do. They will have been following this debate and, therefore, will know that many of their questions have already been put, and they will be anxiously awaiting the Health Secretary’s reply. My guess is that they will also have noticed how generous we have been in throwing a spotlight on other organisations and their responsibilities for the horrors that we have described and which were described in the independent report. First of all, then, those families wish me to record their thanks for the work that the bishop and the panel did in breaking this open.

As we have shone the searchlight on other organisations, heroes have emerged. Those organisations are not totally without something to be said for them. We should also shine a light on Parliament. I am surrounded by a number of heroes who, during those long 23 years, did not lose faith but continued to raise the issue. When we are liberally condemning other public and private organisations, however, I must add that we do not come out smelling of roses ourselves. Some of those in Birkenhead most affected by Hillsborough are dead. They did not live to see the results of the independent inquiry. All of them are 23 years older and many are now quite elderly. So time is of the essence for them.

Before I pursue that last point, I wish to put three questions not so far raised specifically in this debate. First, in a previous debate, my hon. Friend the Member for Penistone and Stocksbridge (Angela Smith) said that Sheffield was not a suitable place to hold the inquest. The families might well say the same. They are mindful, however, that although two thirds of the families affected are in Merseyside, there are many in Scotland and the south, and, in an extraordinary act of generosity, they have asked me to say that Liverpool might not be the most ideal place to hold the inquest, because a minority of other families will wish to come from other parts of the country. They ask that their needs are also borne in mind.

Secondly, given the tale of horrors we have heard from the independent inquiry and in our debates, the families want to know who will run the inquest. A large number of people set in authority over us have not done terribly well, so why should the families trust the next person? The Home Secretary partly answered my third question when she said that she would give us some idea of the scope of the next stage of the inquiry. As their Member of Parliament, I have listened to this debate and have the advantage of representing what I guess is their opinion so far. We have heard many phrases. As one family member said, truth has at last come home, but, as the Home Secretary said, that must be followed by justice and accountability. To be honest, though, I do not know what the next steps will be. We know that there has been an application to set the inquests apart, but I do not know how we will ensure that truth is followed by justice, and I am not sure what steps will be taken to ensure that those people who should be held accountable are held accountable.

I make this plea: it is a question of urgency. People have waited 23 years. People have died waiting for this report and debate, and time is of the essence for many family members still alive. Although they are still alive, part of them died with those events 23 years ago, and they wish to see truth followed by justice, not in any vengeful sense but because they believe it is important. They believe that those who were in authority should stand accountable.

If I may say so, however, the issue for Parliament extends even beyond Hillsborough. The latter has thrown up a terrible divide in this country between those who are done to and those who do the doing. There is a huge crisis of confidence in the people set in authority over us. Hillsborough could go some way to healing a divide that, if I may say so, is far bigger even than that faced by those who suffered the terrible horrors and blight of Hillsborough. Let us think of Hillsborough as an X-ray, as the barium meal going through the system. It shows up some terrible weakness in our country, where many people feel that they are done to, where it is terribly difficult for them to be heard, where it is nigh on impossible for justice to follow through when truth is established and where those who have taken money to be accountable do not accept that accountability.

I hope that when the Secretary of State for Health sums up he will give my constituents who will be following this debate some clarity on those two key issues. Now that we have truth, what is the road map to justice and how do we get accountability? The plea I make, through him to the Home Secretary, is this. Tomorrow she will have another crisis, and the day after she will have another. It is crucial that there should be somebody who is now accountable for ensuring that the truth that has been established in the independent inquiry is followed by justice and accountability. I do not doubt for a moment the Home Secretary’s good will or her wish to see that through herself; I think it will be very difficult for her to do so. That task has to be delegated. That person needs to be named and we need to support them in taking truth, which has at last come home, to the stage of justice and, even more importantly, accountability.