Employment Rights Bill

Lord Evans of Rainow Excerpts

Committee stage
Tuesday 29th April 2025 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Neville-Rolfe (Con)]

My Lords, I am speaking from the Back Benches to make two brief points. I apologise for not speaking at Second Reading.

First, if we have to have a purpose clause—it is not an approach that I particularly favour—it has to include a reference to competitiveness, growth and perhaps, as the noble Baroness, Lady Carberry of Muswell Hill, has suggested, productivity. Does the Minister agree?

Secondly, like my noble friend Lord Hunt of Wirral, I am shocked at the number of government amendments made to the Bill at such a late stage, and to legislation that is so important to all parts of business, all employers in the public sector and of course all employees, and their representatives, whom the noble Lord, Lord Monks, rightly referenced.

I have some sympathy for the Minister. I had a similar experience with the Procurement Act, although it was not quite as bad because we had consulted extensively, and it was a Lords starter. But like this Bill, it was introduced before it was ready and needed a large number of amendments. As the responsible Minister, I was very keen to listen to criticism of the detail and respond by agreeing to amendments or tabling government amendments that responded to the genuine difficulties, and I think there are genuine difficulties with this Bill. We worked across the House very well and I hope the noble Baroness will consult her Front-Bench colleagues, the noble Baronesses, Lady Chapman and Lady Hayman of Ullock, who engaged constructively in scrutiny on all the procurement detail.

Another good example is the minimum wage legislation referenced by the noble Baroness, Lady O’Grady. I remember when I was at Tesco persuading the then Labour Government that they should not include a requirement to put the national minimum wage on all payslips. It was going to cost us millions and require a change in our IT systems. Labour listened and the implementation of the Act went more smoothly as a result. It is very important to listen to the practicalities when making these changes. They can affect different parts of the Bill in different ways.

Finally, we have heard a lot about Europe and comparisons with Europe. I have spent a lot of time in Europe, but I would be interested to hear also about what is going on in the growing markets of Asia and—I suppose until more recently—the growing market of the United States.

[Lord Evans of Rainow (Con)]

My Lords, I will speak briefly to Amendment 1 from the noble Lords, Lord Fox, Lord Sharpe and Lord Hunt. Paragraph (c) would

“make provisions about pay and conditions in certain sectors”.

My noble friend Lady Stowell of Beeston made some very good points about the tech sector—those entrepreneurs and businesses of the future. It was very important to hear what she had to say. However, I wish to stand up for the hospitality sector. Do any of the Members opposite know what it is like to run a hospitality sector business and the challenges of employing people to cater and serve in that sector?

UKHospitality recently launched the social productivity index, which shows that the hospitality sector is also a key driver in socially productive growth, not only contributing to economic expansion but fostering social mobility and regional development. With 57% of the workforce working 30 hours or fewer per week, the sector offers flexible employment options that make it particularly accessible to students, carers and parents—I do not know how many noble Lords in this Chamber today at some stage in their career worked in hospitality, but it is an excellent first opportunity to get into the world of work.

Unfortunately, in broad terms, the proposed changes in the latest set of amendments to the Bill seem destined to result in a framework of requirements that are more likely to hinder than to promote growth in the hospitality sector. In particular, without further addressing the concerns of businesses and considering alternative options, it is felt that the Bill is likely to lead to reductions in staff recruitment, the rate of wage growth and the level of investment. The Bill looks likely to hinder hospitality businesses and restrict growth. It seems to assume that all employers are bad actors with regards to their dealings with their staff. This is patently not the case for the majority of businesses, which recognise the need to recruit and retain staff and ensure they are supported and secure at work.

There still appears to be a disregard for seasonal business models and unpredictable trading in sectors such as pubs and wider hospitality businesses, which are required to adapt quickly to changes in trade patterns determined, for example, by weather or other events outside their control. A reduction in businesses’ ability to respond quickly and proactively to changing demand will undoubtedly result in higher operating costs. That will naturally need to be met by either increasing prices, reducing other staff costs or reducing investment.

These impacts are compounded by the Budget announcements on employer NICs and national living wage rates. Spiralling employment costs will be exacerbated by the additional cost and administrative burdens that the Bill will layer on top, all impacting investment and growth. The unintended consequences of this Bill are slower wage growth and recruitment. I am sure the Minister does not intend that to be the case. Can she reassure the Committee that it will not be the case if the Bill goes ahead as it is?

[Lord Moynihan of Chelsea (Con)]

My Lords, I support this important amendment and endorse the serious concerns just now expressed by the noble Lord, Lord Fox, and my noble friend Lord Hunt of Wirral. I declare my interests as a businessman, an entrepreneur and an investor.

The noble Baroness, Lady O’Grady of Upper Holloway, questioned the need for a stated purpose for the Bill. I am not sure what the logic is there: the most likely reason for a Bill having no purpose is a lack of clarity by its sponsors as to what they are trying to achieve. The noble Baroness, Lady Carberry of Muswell Hill, complains that the list stated in the amendment is non-exhaustive, which I agree with, and then somehow jumps to the conclusion that no list at all would be preferable. Again, I am afraid the logic of that escapes me.

I am far less experienced than my noble friend Lady Neville-Rolfe, but I feel that there is always an obvious advantage in having a purpose clause. In the case of this Bill, I am sure the Government must agree that those who will face the task of interpreting the meaning of the Bill in the future should be given as much clarity as possible, through a purpose clause, as to why the Bill was passed and what its purpose was. Courts in the future will far prefer to have a lucid statement of what the new law sets out to accomplish, rather than being given too wide latitude and freedom to interpret the Bill in this way or that. So I commend the overall objective of the noble Lord, Lord Fox, and hope that the amendment, or similar, will form part of the eventual Bill.

This very lengthy Bill will, if passed without a purposes section, be more open to abuses of the extensive powers it contains. This amendment would put a few appropriate, albeit modest, restraints on the ability of a Government to go too far in applying these powers. To be clear, this proposed purpose clause from the noble Lord, Lord Fox, is just a start and, for me, not completely satisfactory by any means. The list is indeed not exhaustive. In addition, the additional amendments would burden companies with yet another compliance code of conduct, which will serve to send sensible non-executives screaming from the room and possibly off to Dubai. We have to let boards focus on managing their businesses, serving their customers and making sure it is a well-run business, not having to implement new compliance code after new compliance code that will only ever be observed with lip service.

On this point of a non-exhaustive list, I wish to add to the list of purposes of the Bill, in addition to the wording that my noble friend Lady Neville-Rolfe suggested, an additional purpose of supporting, improving and not reducing flexibility in employment relationships. We will move on to the issue of flexibility in the next group of amendments, so I will not expand on that point here, but I recommend the addition of that purpose, as well as the wording proposed by my noble friend Lady Neville-Rolfe, to the list in Amendment 1.

--- Later in debate ---

[Baroness Meyer (Con)]

My Lords, I, too, support what the noble Baroness, Lady Noakes, and the noble Lord, Lord Frost, said. I too am very worried about this Bill and its outcome, which be to kill job creation, drive away investments and slow economic growth. It could drive unemployment, fuel inflation and trigger social unrest. It risks taking us back to the economic chaos of the 1970s, when trade unions held the country to ransom.

Back then, strikes paralysed the country. Businesses went bust and the UK entered a period of stagnation and crisis known as the “winter of discontent”. Some of us are old enough to remember it. Inflation soared to 24% in 1975. The economy flattened. The country was forced to beg the IMF for a bailout of around £3.9 billion; that is worth around £20 billion today. I remember the queues, the power cuts and the garbage piling up in the streets. I remember the feeling of helplessness as Britain slid deeper into decline.

Most of all, I remember the humiliation of seeing our great nation ranked as one of the worst-performing economies in Europe. While France and Germany grew richer, we grew poorer. Our reputation was in tatters and we were known as the “sick man of Europe”. It took bold leadership and tough decisions to turn the tide. That leadership came in the form of Margaret Thatcher. Love her or hate her, she saved Britain from economic collapse. She imposed the discipline that was needed to rebuild our economy and restore our standing in the world.

See where we are now. As has been pointed out, if we have consistently outperformed many European countries in recovering faster from the financial crisis and the pandemic, it is because of the flexibility of our economy. Do we really want to follow the French example, where unemployment rates are at 7.4%, with youth unemployment at 19.2%? That is a result of high labour costs, rigid laws, excessive bureaucracy, early retirement and overly strong—

[Lord Evans of Rainow (Con)]

Unions.

Employment Rights Bill

Lord Evans of Rainow Excerpts

Report stage
Monday 14th July 2025 Lords Chamber

The Government may say that, if we do this for this group of volunteers, we may have to do it for others. I understand that and we have to consider it, but in the end I do not accept it. This reform is long overdue. It is supported by the National Police Chiefs’ Council and the specials’ own representative body. There is a huge gap in recruitment and retention, and for me the time to do something about it is now. I call for Members of this House to support this amendment and therefore back the special constabulary after the over 100 years that it has been backing us.

[Lord Evans of Rainow (Con)]

My Lords, I rise to support the amendment from the noble Lord, Lord Hogan-Howe. This gives me an opportunity to pay tribute to him and his public service as police commissioner and in the Merseyside Police. It also gives me the opportunity to mention the service of my colleague, my noble friend Lord Sharpe, in the Hong Kong police back in the day.

I declare that I was a special constable in the 1980s. In those days we had a number one uniform and that was it, so it was rather hot on a hot sunny day. We also used to have capes, which we used to put around us and which were quite handy. Nobody quite knew what we had our hands on: it could be a torch, it could be a truncheon or it could be fish and chips. We used to run towards danger with nothing more than a truncheon down our trouser legs. So I pay tribute to special constables, past and present.

As the noble Lord said, it was as a contingency of war that special constables came into being, in the First World War, as many police officers joined the Army to fight over in France and elsewhere. But they have all the legal powers. I remember the Police and Criminal Evidence Act 1984—the old salts were really quite upset with that new Act, because it meant that they could not carry on doing what they had been doing previously. But, for us new boys and girls, it was quite interesting, and I thought we embraced the change in the spirit that it was meant.

We were all unpaid volunteers serving local communities, including our local community in Macclesfield, serving in the Cheshire Constabulary. I worked at an aircraft factory, working on the nuclear deterrent at the time. I used to work during the day and go out at night to do a full shift, from 6 pm until 10 pm, and perhaps even later: if there was a road traffic accident or if somebody went missing, it could end up going into the early hours. I got up the next day to go to work, and I was proud to do that—I was a very young man and was fit and healthy enough to do it.

The strategic defence review Making Britain Safer: Secure at Home, Strong Abroad mentions the importance of:

“Home defence and resilience: a whole-of-society approach”.


My noble friend made the excellent point that now is the time to consider the threats to our country and the role of civil defence, and indeed of special constables. A “whole-of-society approach” includes “protecting critical national infrastructure”. But the wider point is that we are reliant on reservists more than ever. If you are in the Army, the Navy or the Royal Air Force, there is provision, from your employer, for you to go and serve the nation, but that does not apply to special constables. So I agree with the noble Lord: this is the right place and the right time to give the same treatment to special constables that we give to our Armed Forces reservists.

[Lord Harris of Haringey (Lab)]

My Lords, I say briefly that the principle in the amendment from the noble Lord, Lord Hogan-Howe, is absolutely right. He has made a cogent case for why special constables are indeed special, and for their contribution. Some 25 years ago, when I chaired the Metropolitan Police Authority in London, we reversed a situation in which the number of special constables was declining, and we started to increase the number—both because of the ability to put more people on the street but also in terms of public engagement with the process.

I will pick up the point made by the noble Lord, Lord Evans of Rainow, although I will probably use it in a slightly different direction. He referred to the strategic defence review. That document, the national security strategy and the resilience action plan published last week all talk about a new mechanism of homeland defence and security, and the importance of using more people—more civil resources—to protect the community.

It is quite clear that we are facing a world in which we are confronted with more and more perils—some of them organised by hostile states and others simply the result of the nature of the world in which we live. Therefore, although the principle that the noble Lord, Lord Hogan-Howe, sets out here is extremely laudable—people should be encouraged and given the opportunity for time off if they are doing this sort of public service—I would like to understand the context in which this will happen. Will we be able to say, in a year or two, that we have identified how we will use volunteers and the public in the defence of our nation, in terms of supporting the police and our armed services, in a much more proactive way? I suspect that that should be done holistically, rather than simply in terms of this single amendment to the Bill. Having said that, the principle is absolutely right: those people who give that service should be encouraged to do so and should be given the opportunity of time off.

Employment Rights Bill

Lord Evans of Rainow Excerpts

Report stage
Wednesday 23rd July 2025 Lords Chamber

Given the confusion from her earlier letter and the arguments I made earlier, I very much hope that this House will support my amendment. I intend to test its opinion.

[Lord Evans of Rainow (Con)]

My Lords, I shall speak to my Amendment 149, regarding broad workforce support. I was born and brought up in a working-class community that was specifically built to supply workers to build aircraft for a very large organisation employing thousands of people. As a teenager, I was lucky enough to get a job there, but I worked for a contractor which was not unionised. I remember going to the works canteen on the first day, and I was asked two questions: was I a member of a union and was I a Tory? The answer was no to the first one; as to the second one, I did not quite know because I was not old enough to vote, but perhaps I did turn out to be a Tory. I was asked to leave and told that if I was not a member of a union, I could not be in the canteen, so I left.

Because it was a tight-knit, working-class community, I was asked later by family, friends and relatives who worked at this factory why I did not go to the canteen. When I explained to them that I was not made welcome on the first day, they asked, “Who was it who said you couldn’t come in?” When I explained to them who it was, they said, “Oh, don’t take any notice of him, he’s a union convener”—I cannot remember the name of the trade union. Then I started to learn one or two things about trade unions. My noble friend Lord Balfe reminded me that there was a pecking order within the workforce. I learned that different trade unions represent different skill sets. I recall, because it was an aircraft factory, that if you were an electrician and a member of TASS, you regarded yourself as a superior trade unionist.

[Lord Balfe (Con)]

We were.

[Lord Evans of Rainow (Con)]

Some things have not changed. Then you had the mechanical engineers, the aircraft fitters, and so on and so forth: several different unions representing different members. I learned as a very young man that some unions are more militant than others and that a very small group of people could bring a whole aircraft plant to a halt.

I recall crossing a picket line. I was not a member of a trade union, but I was a contractor. A small group of trade unionists brought the plant to a halt. I turned up to work and wanted to go through the gates, and I was barred. But I was always taught to stand up to bullies, so I insisted on going through the gates—indeed, I did walk through the gates. I can remember to this day—and it is 45 years ago—the abuse I received as I walked through those gates to work as a young teenager. I still recall it, because every time I go to a Conservative Party conference I get a very similar amount of abuse. So some things have not changed.

The noble Lord, Lord Barber, rightly pointed out that trade unions are a force for good, because they look after their members in so many ways. Nobody across this House would argue with that. But the point of my amendment is that a small group of militant colleagues on the trade union side can bring the whole factory or organisation to a halt. Throughout this debate we have talked about SMEs; in this case I am talking about a very large organisation. It is the intimidation of the minority that affects the majority. Eliminating the 50% turnout threshold for strike ballots would significantly lower the bar for industrial action, allowing strikes to proceed if only a small minority of the workforce participates. This creates unpredictability and challenges for business continuity and planning, as substantial disruptions could occur based on the votes of a very limited number of employees.

In sectors where products are highly perishable, including the distribution of medicines or those with just-in-time supply chains, the ease of initiating industrial action increases the risk of supply chain interruptions. Some medical products have a limited shelf life. Strikes at distribution centres could lead to critical shortages, with direct consequences for public health and patient care. For industries that rely on seasonal production cycles, such as manufacturing and distribution of vaccines, removing the threshold places the delicate timing of mandatory deliveries at risk.

Even short periods of industrial action could jeopardise the ability to meet strict production targets and delivery deadlines, impacting public services and national preparedness. Lowering the requirements for strike action could deter domestic and international investors, who typically are seeking business environments with stable industrial relations frameworks. The potential for frequent or unpredictable strikes may lead to perceptions of elevated operational risk, discouraging long-term commitment across multiple sectors. The absence of a robust threshold may undermine industrial relations by encouraging strike action that lacks clear, broad-based support among employees. This could erode morale, create internal divisions and reduce trust between management and staff, ultimately affecting organisation productivity and the wider economy. I grew up in the 1970s; we do not want to go back to the 1970s.

[Lord Jackson of Peterborough (Con)]

My Lords, I will speak very briefly to Amendment 149A—and Amendment 149, spoken to very ably by my noble friend Lord Evans of Rainow. He is absolutely right about the qualifying percentage. Not long ago, I was thumbing through my copy of the Labour Party rules, as you do; the template rules of the Labour Party. I noticed that regional executive council meetings of that party have a quorum of 33% in terms of any decisions made in the deliberations of that committee. If the Labour Party is going to impose a less than 50% and certainly less than 33% marker for decisions being made internally, it is odd that it does not take a similarly robust attitude towards important decisions that affect many workers in industrial landscapes and industrial relations.

Amendment 149A addresses a very perverse consequence—the decision, in terms of Clause 72, to remove proper organised supervision of industrial disputes in the industrial landscape that we have at the moment. It is pretty odd that there does not appear to be a rationale for this. It seems sensible and prudent for us to be in a position where trade union officials are responsible for ensuring that there is an orderly management of industrial disputes. No case has been made by Ministers, in Committee or at Second Reading, for why it is necessary, other than demands from the trade unions to remove that part of previous legislation.