Health Protection (Coronavirus, Wearing of Face Coverings in a Relevant Place) (England) Regulations 2020

Lord Dubs Excerpts

Friday 18th September 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Dubs (Lab) [V]]

My Lords, I very much support the amendment to the Motion in the name of my noble friend Lady Thornton. I agree with many of the comments that have been made; I pick out my noble friend Lady Massey, who said a lot of things with which I agree.

We must avoid inconsistency. If there is inconsistency in applying advice, guidance and compulsion in the use of face masks then the public will not support it. It is essential that the public understand what is going on. In my experience, I have seen members of the public being pretty good about going into shops, and I understand that on public transport they are not bad, but there are lapses.

I have a number of questions. Why do employees, particularly in shops, not have to wear face masks? It is a signal to customers if the staff in shops are wearing masks, and in a way it encourages sloppiness if they are not wearing them while we have to.

The public need to understand what the benefits are. Are the benefits for the wearer or for the person they are talking to? I wonder whether I should have a T-shirt made that has on the front, “My mask protects you”, and on the back, “Your mask protects me”. Does the Minister agree that that reflects the policy?

Should we not make masks compulsory outdoors, certainly in cities? I believe that is the case in parts of France and parts of Spain. Walking along a shopping street before even going into a shop, one comes into contact with many people. Why not make masks compulsory in shopping centres, where we would protect people going shopping? I understand that the practice varies from one country to another and that is why there is uncertainty.

I asked a question about police powers in the earlier debate, but I do not think the Minister answered it. What are the police powers in this? If they see people walking into shops, is it the shopkeeper or the shop staff who should say, “Get out unless you have a mask on”, or should the police be invoked into doing that? A similar question applies on public transport.

My main plea is the one that I started with: there must be consistency and there must be understanding on the part of the public. That way, we can make the policy work.