Terminally Ill Adults (End of Life) Bill

Debate between Lord Deben and Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town

Committee stage
Friday 6th February 2026 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town (Lab)]

My Lords, I was not able to be here this morning; many noble Lords will know that I spend much of the mornings, most days, in a care home—very often two or three times a day. My husband is being brilliantly looked after in one of the most brilliant care homes. I should have got their names this morning and I could have given them all a shout-out, but I will simply say that Bridgeside Lodge is one of the most amazing places for looking after people.

I must say to the noble Lord who moved this: I do not know whether he spends as much time in care homes as I do, but they do everything possible to keep their residents alive, well, well fed, replenished and amused, and to give them a quality of life that I think would be appreciated by everyone. But, of course, a lot of people in care homes are very ill, and some of them will be exactly the sort of people who may well need this.

It is a bit condescending to think that all those people are vulnerable. Most people in the care home do not know what I do. They think that I am a doctor sometimes, because I am known as Dr Hayter—I have a PhD, but I am not a doctor. But one of them discovered the other day and grabbed hold of me and said, “You won’t let them stop it, will you?” This was a very senior medical physicist, a professor of physics at UCL. I will give a shout-out to him by name: Andrew Todd-Pokropek. These are people in care homes with capacity who know exactly what they are doing and are urging me and others in your Lordships’ House to get this Bill through. Some of them will know that they are exactly the sort of people who may well want to make use of it, although not now.

The idea that the doctors looking after them, who are specialists in geriatric care, are somehow incompetent and that we should somehow need an extra layer of safeguards, is not living in the real world. So many people at the end of their lives will be in care homes, hospitals or hospices, and the idea that we would almost exclude them from the normal way of this Bill seems to me extraordinary. I hope that the noble Lord and others will think very carefully before saying that the exact cohort who are already ill should somehow be excluded from the normal trail of this Bill, because that would really be inappropriate. I urge him to withdraw his amendment and think very carefully before he pushes it again.

[Lord Deben (Con)]

I have some sympathy with the noble Baroness. She is very fortunate with the care home her husband is in, as is he. For many years, I represented the constituency that had perhaps the largest number of care homes in the country. Suffolk Coastal is an elegant area, and with towns such as Southwold, Aldeburgh and Felixstowe, it is a natural place for them. I would, of course, visit them on a regular basis, as indeed did my wife.

I have to say to the noble Baroness that the difference between the best and the worst is very considerable indeed. In grave humour, if I displeased my children, they would mention the worst one as the one where I might be placed. I put it like that because they recognised it, too: the very considerable difference. The reason why I think the amendment from the noble Lord, Lord Blencathra, so important is precisely because it does not exclude people. It says that the conditions of care homes are such that it is important to protect people rather differently, because of our experience. Some of the care homes in my former constituency are absolutely wonderful, with really good care by really good clinicians. However, I cannot say that that is universal, so I think we should have some protection—and this seems to me to be very sensible and it does not exclude anybody.

The noble Baroness suggested that this would exclude people, but this is a proposal that would protect those who are less happily off than the noble Baroness and her husband. It is very generous of her to share her current concerns: mine are not as current, but they are very much wider and from a much longer period. I looked again at the devastating effect of Covid, which came after my membership of the House of Commons, because of connections that one had—and that has made me even stronger in my belief that we should be especially concerned for those in care homes, not because of the best or even the average, but because there are many where people would otherwise be vulnerable.

Terminally Ill Adults (End of Life) Bill

Debate between Lord Deben and Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town

Committee stage
Friday 21st November 2025 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town (Lab)]

My Lords, this has been something of an unbalanced debate, so I hope it might be possible to hear from someone who supports the Bill. I was particularly anxious to come before the noble Lord, Lord Polak—for whom I have a lot of respect; we agree on many other issues—to respond very soon after the right reverend Prelate the Bishop of London. She was very honest when she said that she did not support the Bill, and I think she said that it was unamendable. Here we are, however, discussing amendments.

The noble Lord, Lord Carlile, spoke earlier about whether we should discuss a form of wording on which we could all agree. The question then would be: if we can agree a form of wording, would he then support the Bill? My feeling is that these amendments are not about making the Bill acceptable so that those putting them forward could then support it but are a way of trying to stop our discussion and proper scrutiny, because they do not want the Bill to go ahead.

[Lord Deben (Con)]

My Lords—