Finance (No. 3) Bill

Lord Davies of Oldham Excerpts

Monday 18th July 2011 Lords Chamber

[Lord Davies of Oldham]

My Lords, I am conscious that the hour is moving on. Tempted though I am to summarise the contributions of all noble Lords to this debate, which has been absolutely fascinating, I will leave that particular joy to the Minister.

I will begin by emphasising those parts of the debate that I am sure will obtain the enthusiastic acceptance of the whole House. The debate was graced by the outstanding maiden speech of the noble Lord, Lord Magan of Castletown. We very much appreciated the forthrightness of his speech in the areas that he covered. It was a tour de force, and at times it was also somewhat of a tour d’horizon. The problem of a tour d’horizon in this House is that we do from time to time have to abide by certain time constraints. However, on his maiden speech he was able to deploy fully the arguments and we all very much appreciated what he had to say. We are also grateful to the Minister for introducing the Bill and for covering it in a very limited time, conscious of the fact that many dimensions of the Finance (No. 3) Bill would be covered in the debate, to which he would be expected to respond at the end.

There has been a great deal of approval on the speech and on the work of the noble Lord, Lord MacGregor of Pulham Market. We all appreciate the sterling work that he does for the committee. From the contributions to a debate of this kind we see the very constructive work that the committee does in discrete areas. I do not doubt that we all recognise the very serious recommendations about the degree of consultation that can go on with regard to taxation, encouraging the Government to go further than they have gone so far, although we recognise their good intentions. We also recognise the necessary work on anti-avoidance and in due course increased work on anti-evasion as far as taxation is concerned. In particular, I want to comment on his points about the Revenue staff. I understand fully why the committee reached its conclusions on anxieties regarding the competence of Revenue staff. We have only to compare the rates paid in the public sector against those paid to the adversaries in the private sector who seek to limit the taxation paid by companies to realise what an enormously difficult job the public sector has in those terms. That is to say nothing of the fact that it cannot help that part of the Government’s deficit reduction plan is to reduce HMRC staff. Of course that produces strains in the department in the crucial areas where extra revenues can be obtained.

All sides in the debate appreciate that this Budget has been produced at a time of great economic difficulty. We all recognise that there has been a global financial crisis which has led every country that does not have the strongest of economies into very real difficulties. We all recognise that we need to get deficits down. That is why we do not doubt that the Government had to take tough decisions on spending cuts. Nevertheless, the best way of getting the deficit down is to employ the assets of the country as fully as possible. That means retaining people in constructive work as best we can. However, a great deal of the Government’s strategy, particularly with regard to the public sector, is to reduce our productive units and the ability of people to work and to earn. People who do not earn do not, of course, pay taxes—nor do they consume or sustain demand. Therefore, it is of no great surprise, or it ought not to be, that this economy has staggered into a position of negative growth over recent quarters. It looks by all accounts, and all forecasts, as if it will be a very considerable time indeed before we see anything like significant positive growth, despite the fact that we can look at other countries—and Germany is the outstanding example—that have come through this crisis and have positive rates of growth as they tackle deficits. Of course, it is not the case, as it has been portrayed, that the United Kingdom alone ran into deficit. All these countries have had to wrestle with their budgetary plans. The problem is the extent to which they have savagely reduced demand, as this Government have—and the answer, on the whole, is that they have eschewed that.

I put it to this House that if the debate that is going on in the United States of America at present should be won by the kind of voices that we have heard from certain parts of the House on the government Benches today, by the right-wing Republicans and the Tea Party advocates, we will see a decline in the American economy that will render our capacity to recover extremely difficult indeed, if not impossible, by 2015. Therefore, we should recognise that when we are discussing this issue of global demand, we have our part to play in this, too. We have the greatest doubts about the particular strategy being followed by the Government. As the noble Lord, Lord Desai, said, it was a pity that the noble Lord, Lord Skidelsky, was not here in this debate, as he above all on these occasions has identified the strategy that a coalition Government pursued 90 years ago in the face of public crisis over finances. It took us almost to wartime and government expenditure in wartime to recover. We worry, and are critical of the fact, that the rate of deficit reduction that the Government are pursuing is one that may lead to similarly bleak prospects for this country over this period of time.

Of course, in the debate, there have been so many comments about the Bill itself, and it scarcely behoves me to seek to reply to all of them. But I hope that the Minister will pay some attention to those who have argued about particular aspects of the social impact of the Budget. I hope that he will respond to the arguments that my noble friend Lord Anderson and the noble Lord, Lord Browne, produced on the question of the extent to which the Government intend to pursue family-friendly policies, of which we have seen little at the present time. I hope that also he will appreciate those contributions of my noble friends Lord McFall and Lord Watson of Invergowrie, and several other noble friends. They emphasised the fact that the great danger is that we look once again as if we were concentrating overwhelmingly on the financial dimensions of the economy—a point that my noble friend Lord Haskell also brought late into the debate. The Government have said that it is their intention to rebalance the economy, but it is quite clear that the manufacturing industry is not getting the support, resources or opportunities from the banks to borrow in order to invest that would help to put our economy on a sounder footing.

This debate has been extremely valuable, and we recognise the very constructive comments on all sides. We hope, however, that the Minister will also appreciate that, as far as Her Majesty’s Opposition are concerned, there is a real difference between our perspective on the strategy which ought to be pursued at this present time, and at the moment we are holding the Government to account where their case is remarkably thin.