Health and Social Care Bill

Lord Cotter Excerpts

Wednesday 16th November 2011 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Pitkeathley]

My Lords, having put my name to Amendment 79, I support the powerful case made by my noble friend Lord Warner for the inclusion of long-term conditions and integrated services in the Bill. I particularly draw your Lordships’ attention to those long-term conditions that can be fluctuating as well as progressive. While it may be progressive in an overall sense, an illness such as multiple sclerosis has periods of varying intensity, when needs are different, and even periods—sometimes quite long periods—of remission. It is very important, therefore, that services are not only commissioned across health and social care—it is very important that there is a whole package of support; that is of such significance to users and their families—but also that those packages of care are flexible enough to cope with the varying progress of these illnesses.

The last thing that an MS sufferer, for example, wants when a period of remission suddenly ends with a fresh attack, as it frequently does, is to go back to square one on clinical commissioning, especially as far as the integration of clinical and social care commissioning is concerned. They do not want to go back to starting the assessment process or back to judgments about need and the abilities of their families to care for them, and so on, with all the delays and distress associated with reassessment and all the unnecessary expense that these processes involve. That applies very much also to those with certain mental health conditions, which are also fluctuating in their intensity. So proper care across integrated services not only prevents acute episodes but also helps to support caring families to participate in care effectively, as they wish to do, thus saving scarce resources as well as meeting the needs of those who are suffering.

[Lord Cotter]

I shall speak to Amendment 81B, to follow on from what the noble Lord, Lord Hunt, said. Brevity will be my watchword, of course, because we do not wish to drag out proceedings. This is a particularly important amendment, referring as it does to commissioning for rare conditions. There are many such rare conditions that people suffer from, but I refer particularly to one called arthrogryposis, which my wife has suffered from from birth to today. As with many people who have struggled with a rare condition from childhood to the age she is now, it has been difficult to get not just treatment but diagnosis. She was originally not diagnosed with this condition, which is associated with the nervous system and the muscles and mobility. Throughout her life she had the difficulty of being misdiagnosed, and then when she was diagnosed she had difficulty getting treatment. I welcome the amendment for that reason.

Many people have that struggle to get the treatment that they need appropriately in their area. For example, we recently went to Birmingham, where they have done some research work. It is so important to get research work done for rare conditions, to establish where they came from and whether people were born with them. I so much welcome—as my wife and others with her condition will welcome, as well as those with other conditions of various sorts—the fact that we are drawing attention to the need for commissioning for rare conditions. You could say that only a small proportion of the public has each rare condition but, when you add all the rare conditions together, there is quite a proportion of people with those problems.

I draw to a close on that basis and hope that the Minister will consider this very carefully, as we and many other people have had experience of rare conditions, with the difficulty of diagnosis and treatment and of getting it recognised throughout their lives.

[Baroness Murphy]

My Lords, this is an interesting group of amendments about how prescriptive the powers and duties should be for CCGs and about dividing up who should do what between the groups and the board. We have to be careful about how prescriptive we want to be, because it may vary in different areas according to the board’s confidence in the ability of groups to commission. However, I take the point that there are some fundamental principles which we would like to see in each of these groups. That was why I added my name to the amendment tabled by the noble Lord, Lord Warner, and others, about the need to strengthen the co-ordination of health and social care. This is fundamental to the care of so many people. In my view it is a requirement, not an option, that it should be in the forefront of commissioners’ minds.

I am sympathetic to the amendments on special conditions and rare conditions, but—coming back to what the noble Lord, Lord Warner, said—the areas where we need most improvement include everyday, ordinary, complex multiple conditions of older people and simple but common surgical emergencies. It is the ordinary, everyday things that we need—ensuring that we have the right commissioning groups at the right level and that they concentrate on these broad responsibilities relating to the population.

I support the question that underlines Amendment 82, in the names of the noble Baroness, Lady Thornton, and the noble Lord, Lord Hunt of Kings Heath. This is about how agreement will be made between health and well-being boards and the commissioning intentions. We need some understanding of the ground rules which will underpin those negotiations. My experience of negotiating contracts in the NHS is that they can be an awful long time in coming and being finalised unless you have some clear ground rules. I wonder how far the Government have got in thinking about that.

I wish to speak to Amendment 178 on behalf of the noble Earl, Lord Sandwich, and the noble Lord, Lord Mancroft, neither of whom are in their place today. This again is about clinical commissioning groups’ awareness. Amendment 178 is a plea that commissioning groups should take into account—particularly into financial account—what is already being provided for voluntary organisations. Often these provide a more cost-effective and responsive service to client groups. In the noble Lords’ minds particularly were services for those who misuse drugs or alcohol, but there are also services in mental health or in specially targeted support and rehabilitation for specific ethnic groups. For example, a support worker from the same ethnic community can be so vital in establishing mutual trust and compliance with a care plan.

I very much hope that commissioning groups will take into account what is already being provided when they commission. Of course, I understand that alcohol and drug misuse services will be commissioned largely by local authorities. This is entirely positive because they often have a greater understanding of the involvement of voluntary organisations in being able to contribute to a wider service than the NHS often does. Nevertheless, this is an important amendment.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Cotter]

My noble friend has given a careful response, as always, to the points made. However, will he accept that there is a very special need for focus on rare conditions and the struggle to get both diagnosis and treatment? I hope my noble friend will take note of this because I can attest, through my wife, that there is a lifetime struggle from childhood to get these issues addressed. I hope that will be borne in mind.

[Earl Howe]

I am grateful to my noble friend and I did mean to make specific reference to his speech, which I found very impressive. He is of course absolutely right. There is no doubt that the commissioning of specialised services in recent years has improved in many areas but it is still variable. I do not believe I am misrepresenting those who champion the cause of patients with rare conditions by saying that they welcome the fact that the commissioning of specialised care will now fall to the NHS Commissioning Board. In other words, the commissioning will be done once and not, as at the moment, very frequently 10 times at strategic health authority level. It is absolutely clear that for all sorts of reasons greater consistency and better quality need to be injected into the commissioning of specialised care. The points my noble friend made were ones that we certainly subscribe to.