His Royal Highness The Prince Philip, Duke of Edinburgh

Lord Cormack Excerpts

Monday 12th April 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, I have heard every word of this debate—that is the penalty of being number 79—but it has been an extraordinarily instructive afternoon and, I think, a very moving one. We have heard some very remarkable speeches. All of us taking part in this debate are privileged to be able to pay tribute to a man I consider to be a very great man, whose influence will not diminish but will grow in succeeding years.

He is certainly the longest-serving consort but, in many ways, he is the most remarkable consort in our history, and he has touched so many lives. He has been something of a polymath. The noble Baroness, Lady Finlay, said a moment or two ago that he had a moral compass. I have often said in your Lordships’ House that one of the great losses of the second half of the 20th century and the first part of the 21st century has been the loss of our moral compass. But here was a man who, throughout his life, sought to hold fast to those things which are good and to

“render to no man evil for evil”,

quoting the prayer book of which he was a devotee.

The whole debate has been suffused by an atmosphere of love, and I hope that Her Majesty the Queen—to whom we have all, of course, offered our sincerest condolences—will derive some comfort from the fact that the feeling of affection for her and her late husband and the feeling of deep admiration have been palpable. We have had many speeches from members of all political parties and none, and there has been not a word of criticism but a total unanimity of appreciation. I am grateful, as I am sure other noble Lords are, to those who control these things for ensuring that this day was devoted to the proper commemoration of a very great man.

Many of us have talked about personal memories. I first remember Prince Philip when he came to Grimsby when I was a young boy of eight taken by my mother with a flag to stand at the side of the road and wave as he went by. Some 55 years later, when the Queen celebrated her Golden Jubilee, we had a special CPA conference in Lancaster House. As treasurer of the CPA, it was my duty to take Prince Philip around to meet the parliamentarians who had come from all over the Commonwealth. There was not a single country to which he had not gone. As we walked together, he had some wonderful anecdotes about some of those countries, many of which I would not think it appropriate to divert your Lordships with. But I remember that he had around him a thoroughly entranced group of young parliamentarians from Malta, for which, of course, he had a deep and abiding affection. He was actually teaching them some Maltese history. It was quite remarkable. When I saw him on subsequent occasions, he often referred to it.

In 2005, I had a slightly difficult year because, very tragically, one of my opponents in the general election died. My general election was delayed by seven weeks. During that period, I attended a reception in aid of the “Cutty Sark”, one of Prince Philip’s great causes, at Buckingham Palace. He came over to me and expressed great sympathy for the fact that I had not yet had my general election. When I hosted him just a few months later at a lunch at the Athenaeum, where we were welcoming a new portrait which we had commissioned, he said, “Well, you made it. You made it, and I am very glad you did”, and we had a good talk. But the great thing I remember about that lunch was how very kind he was to the young Welsh artist, Graham Jones, who had painted the portrait. He showed a real enthusiasm. Of course, he loved art—he was no mean painter himself—and he talked to Graham at length during the lunch, who I am sure will never forget that day.

He was a truly great man. He held fast to that which is good, and I hope that talk of a memorial in Westminster comes to something. It would be right for him to be permanently commemorated in the Palace of Westminster. If anyone deserves a memorial, he does. He is somebody who has rendered the state some service.

Covid-19: Road Map

Lord Cormack Excerpts

Tuesday 23rd February 2021 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park (Con)]

I join my noble friend in thanking those who he named, who have been so instrumental both behind the vaccines and in the rollout of the programme. I go back to my response to a previous question: the modelling released by SAGE shows that we cannot escape the fact that, despite all that my noble friend says, which is absolutely right, lifting the lockdown, no matter when we do it, will result in more cases, more hospitalisations and, sadly, more deaths. Moving too fast too soon risks a resurgence in infections. We have all said—and this has come across strongly during all your Lordships’ contributions today—that we want to keep moving forward, not backwards. This is a cautious path, but one that we believe will get us to where we want to be steadily and safely, and ensure that, when we take a step forward, we do not have to take a step back, as, sadly, we have had to do previously.

[Lord Cormack (Con) [V]]

My Lords, during the lockdown last autumn, large churches and cathedrals were able to have services with a choir, suitably distanced of course. Spiritual health is very important. We are approaching the most significant week in the Christian year, Holy Week. In Lincoln, where I live, we have a great and glorious cathedral, we can have services and we can have a choir, but we cannot have them together. It is ludicrous. Can the Minister have this one looked into? It would be very sad indeed if during Holy Week we could have either a congregation or a choir, but not both together.

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park (Con)]

I can certainly say to my noble friend that we will continue to work with the Places of Worship Taskforce to ensure that advice is available for religious communities and faith leaders so we can enable the safe opening of places of worship as we move forward through the steps in the road map.

Covid-19

Lord Cormack Excerpts

Thursday 28th January 2021 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park (Con) [V]]

I can certainly reassure the noble Baroness that we have total confidence in our supplies. We remain in close contact with all suppliers, and scheduled deliveries will fully support vaccination of our top four priority groups by mid-February, as intended. I can also confirm that individuals will receive their second dose, as it does provide better, long-lasting protection, as we planned.

[Lord Cormack (Con) [V]]

My Lords, this is not a time to play the blame game, and as my noble friend recognised in her opening words, it is a time to strive for national unity. To this end, would she not agree that all information on the pandemic should be shared on Privy Council terms with all opposition leaders, and that Sir Keir Starmer should be invited to meet the Prime Minister every week, both before and after Prime Minister’s Questions? That affair does not help to cement national unity.

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park (Con) [V]]

I think the engagement between the Prime Minister and the leader of the Opposition is for them. I have been extremely heartened by the unity your Lordships have shown in presenting the importance of the vaccination programme and in raising important issues in the House during this. It is in that spirit that we will continue to work.

Covid-19 Update

Lord Cormack Excerpts

Wednesday 14th October 2020 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park (Con)]

Obviously, it is for each devolved Administration to make its decisions, although I know there has been a lot of discussion in this area. However, I reassure the noble Lord that, among the restrictions in areas of high incidence, it is very clear that people should avoid travelling in and out of such areas apart from for work, education, youth services and caring responsibilities, and that overnight stays in other areas of the UK as a whole should be avoided. That is quite clear guidance.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, I have lost count of the number of taxi drivers who have told me that the 10 pm curfew produces too many people on the streets at the same time. Could that be looked at? Will my noble friend also bear in mind that political acrimony does not help to create national unity? Would it not be a good idea if Sir Keir Starmer were invited to No. 10 to sit down with the Prime Minister and discuss all these complex matters?

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park (Con)]

I agree that we all want to work together to fight this terrible disease. Your Lordships’ House provides a very good model for how constructive discussions can happen. On my noble friend’s point about the 10 pm curfew, public health directors have reported that compliance with social distancing and enforcement of regulations becomes more challenging later in the evening, after people have been drinking. That is part of the reasoning behind the 10 pm curfew, so that drinking does not continue through the evening.

Covid-19

Lord Cormack Excerpts

Wednesday 23rd September 2020 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park (Con)]

Obviously, PPE was a significant issue earlier this year. Lots of lessons have been learned. The department continues to work to make sure that we have plans in place. The noble Baroness will be aware that, for instance, we provided more than 250 million items of PPE. We are working with both the public and the private sector to ensure that we have robust plans in place so that we can make PPE available as and when it is needed. Obviously, one of the priorities, as I have just identified, is care homes.

[Lord Cormack (Con) [V]]

My Lords, would it not be deeply unfortunate if the economic devastation that has already been caused by Covid—devastation that will continue following yesterday’s announcement—were compounded by a self-inflicted wound; namely, the total dislocation of the channel ports, as envisaged by the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster this morning?

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park (Con)]

My noble friend is absolutely right: ensuring that we protect jobs and support those in work has been central to our work so far. As I mentioned in a previous answer, we have put in place an unprecedented package of support for businesses, including grants, loans and the furlough scheme. We will continue to support business to make sure that we have a thriving economy once we come out of this crisis.

Business of the House

Lord Cormack Excerpts

Wednesday 16th September 2020 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

That the debate on the motion in the name of Lord True set down for Wednesday 23 September be limited to 4½ hours and not 3 hours.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, I do not want to detain the House for more than a few seconds, really. While I am grateful that there is to be a debate on the negotiations with our European friends and former partners, I regret the fact that it is not on the Floor of the House. There is a strong tradition in your Lordships’ House that important constitutional issues are debated on the Floor of the House. I cannot think of any more important issue, particularly in the light of very recent announcements. Therefore, while I thank my noble friend for the opportunity to have the debate. could we not have a guarantee that, within a short space of time, there will be a full day’s debate on the Floor of your Lordships’ House?

Business of the House

Lord Cormack Excerpts

Tuesday 28th July 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Adonis (Lab)]

My Lords, following on from my noble friend, can the Chief Whip tell us precisely how many noble Lords will be able to take part physically in the Grand Committee proceedings?

I want also to raise an issue on procedure. We all understand the need for accommodation to be made in respect of hybrid proceedings and, for as long as there are safety considerations, that will need to continue. However, there is a fundamental contradiction between the first and the second line in the Motion before the House. The first line states:

“The procedure shall follow, so far as practical, procedure in Grand Committee”.


However, the second line states that

“no member may participate unless they have signed up to the Speakers’ List”.

It is stark staring obvious that Members do not need to have signed up to the speakers’ list in order to participate in person. That is not true in the Chamber, nor is it true in Grand Committee. This is a particular issue in respect of Committee stages, which of course is what the Grand Committee largely exists for, although some other debates can take place, because of the give and take in Committee. At the moment, we now have the utter absurdity that in order to intervene after the Minister, if you are in the Chamber, you need to email the clerk who will email the Lord Chairman sitting on the Woolsack, who will then call you. If, as I found once, you do not get your email in fast enough, you cannot be called after the Minister even though you are actually in the Chamber and you can catch the eye of the Lord Chairman. This is palpably absurd. The reason for it is the levelling-down mentality that nothing that cannot be done in the virtual House should be done in the physical House.

We are all trying to make the best of these procedures and I even had some sympathy for that concept when only a handful of Members were participating in the Chamber and it might have been thought unfair that noble Lords who were taking part virtually would not have the same opportunities as those who were present in the House. However, now that we are encouraging Members to come back to the House where they can and we will have Members physically present in the Grand Committee, it seems utterly absurd and contrary to good practice to deprive noble Lords of their rights in the Chamber and in Grand Committee because of the understandable need to bring other noble Lords in remotely.

The Chief Whip cannot change procedures in response to this debate, but I do not think that the arrangements that have been proposed are either correct or sustainable. It is regrettable that they have been replicated in the arrangements being made for the Grand Committee proceedings from September, so I hope that the noble Lord may be able to give us an undertaking that this issue will be considered further—perhaps even before the beginning of September.

On that note, I wish him a happy holiday. I say to him and to the staff of the Clerk of the Parliaments that we are all enormously appreciative of the work that they have done to make the House operate as well as it has over recent months. It is the aim of us all to make it work better and not to take away in any way from the phenomenal contribution that those who have enabled us to continue working during this time of crisis as we have.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, I entirely endorse what the noble Lord, Lord Adonis, just said about my noble friend the Chief Whip and others in the usual channels and elsewhere who have enabled us to function through some extraordinarily difficult times.

However, having said that, I believe that we have to move on. We have to try to get back to as near to normality as possible, as soon as possible. That means encouraging noble Lords in all parts of the House to regard it as the normal thing to be here and the exceptional thing to participate virtually. I must confess that I had never used a computer before. I was determined that I was not going to be excluded from your Lordships’ House, so I made what my noble friend the Chief Whip would probably say were far too many interventions via virtual participation. But I hate it. It is a horrible thing talking into a screen, not being able to see your colleagues and not being able to sense the reaction of the House. We must get back to that and to a self-regulating House as soon as possible.

With these lists, all spontaneity has gone. The Government cannot be held adequately to account because the Minister, whoever he or she may be, can get away with whatever he or she wants. There is not the opportunity to question them save in the very artificial form to which the noble Lord, Lord Adonis, referred in respect of Committee, when you have to send an email and get another email back and then you can ask a question. Some noble Lords, particularly those participating virtually, have abused that system by making a speech that they should have made on the amendment concerned or even at Second Reading. I am glad to see noble Lords on the other side of the House assenting to some of these points, because they are important.

I know that there is a fundamental problem about numbers, which will perhaps remain for a very long time. I therefore put to the House what I have put privately to the Clerk of Parliaments and others: we should give serious consideration to moving the Chamber to the Royal Gallery. In 1983, that happened. The late Manny Shinwell, who had just celebrated his 100th birthday, was nearly killed by a bit of timber falling from the ceiling. Thank God it was not the end of an illustrious career, but, because of that, this Chamber had to be vacated for restoration and, for a time, noble Lords met in the Royal Gallery. As a Member of the other place for nearly 20 years by then, I found this very interesting and in sharp contrast to the war years, when of course—I remembered it because my noble friend Lord Trefgarne was here in 1947 for the first time —the Lords met in the Robing Room. That would be completely impossible, but it would be possible to have more people, physically distanced, in the Royal Gallery. I know that there are problems, but they have been overcome in the past and they should be overcome now. We could have noble Lords sitting on individual seats, or the Benches could be put in and augmented. It could be tiered, as it is for the State Opening of Parliament every year. It is a serious suggestion that I commend to your Lordships for serious consideration.

One or two other things would help edge us back towards normality. We are brilliantly served by our staff in this House, but I find it very sad to go into the Library and find not a single clerk on duty. Surely there could be a rota system—again, I am glad to see noble Lords assenting—because that Library is of fundamental importance to every Member of your Lordships’ House, and there should be clerks on duty so that Members can consult them. I hope that that can be the case, whether we are serving in Grand Committee or on the Floor of the House, when we come back in September.

I have another suggestion which may not command such universal assent. We are brilliantly served by the Clerk of the Parliaments and all the clerks, but, in edging towards normality, although none of them could ever be accused of being anything other than impeccably dressed, it would be nice to see them properly dressed when we come back in September. Again, it would make the place a little more normal and a little more like the House of Lords that we know and most of us love.

I am grateful to my noble friend for introducing this Motion. I wish him success. I wish him a restful and happy summer—no one deserves it more—but when we come back, let there be more of us and let us be functioning in a more normal way.

[The Earl of Caithness (Con)]

My Lords, I want to ask my noble friend on the Front Bench to pay particular note to what the noble Lord, Lord McConnell of Glenscorrodale, said about travel. He lives in the tropics compared to where some people in Scotland live. I remember that when I was appointed to a committee that sat on a Monday afternoon, I had to give up serving on it because I could not get down from Caithness in time. Indeed, I sat on a Back-Bench committee with the noble Lord, Lord Alderdice, which looked at the whole problem of better servicing people who live far away from the Chamber and giving them a fairer opportunity to speak and participate in this House.

I thoroughly agree with what my noble friend Lord Cormack said about the Library. One cannot even use a computer in the Library at the moment; this morning, I came in to do some work and found that I was totally unable to do so.

On voting, I agree with my noble friend Lord Trefgarne. I hope that my noble friend on the Front Bench will give consideration to the idea that, in future, the only people who can vote will be those who are physically here in the Chamber.

Business and Planning Bill

Lord Cormack Excerpts

Report stage & Report stage (Hansard) & Report stage (Hansard): House of Lords
Monday 20th July 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Cormack (Con) [V]]

My Lords, I have no doubt that my noble friend Lord Blencathra would indeed go through in the way he suggests. I will be very brief. I am concerned entirely with the issue of pavement licences, and I raised these matters in Committee a week ago. When new constraints are imposed or new freedoms given—even if for only a very brief period, relatively speaking—it is important that we should know precisely where we stand. That is why I have said, in my Amendment 17, that the Secretary of State should have no discretion on whether he prescribes conditions: he must prescribe conditions. I have gone on to say, in my Amendment 18, that he must have regard for those who will be inconvenienced by these new freedoms and conditions, specifically people who are disabled physically or who are blind or partially sighted.

I am afraid I have not received the letter to which my noble friend Lord Blencathra alluded in his speech, and I therefore look forward to hearing what my noble friend the Minister has to say. I agree with both my noble friend Lord Blencathra and the noble Lord, Lord Holmes, that this is one occasion—there are few, but this is one—where it might be helpful to have an earlier ministerial intervention than normal.

I want to feel assured at the end of this debate that people who are physically disabled, blind or partially sighted are not going to be inconvenienced by the new freedom that has been granted to people to spill over on to the pavement. In earlier debates, we heard how very dangerous that can sometimes be. We must always have uppermost in our minds the proper protection of those who are not always able to protect themselves and who, perhaps unlike my noble friend Lord Blencathra, do not drive mini tanks fearlessly along the road or on pavements.

[Lord Hendy (Lab) [V]]

I will speak to Amendment 4 and endorse everything that my noble friend Lord Hain said in his powerful speech in support of it. As he pointed out, the striking thing about this amendment is its modesty. All it requires is consultation of relevant trade unions and businesses over the granting of pavement licences. As was pointed out in Committee, for 70 years and three weeks since it ratified ILO Convention 98 on 30 June 1950, the United Kingdom has voluntarily assumed the obligation to encourage and promote collective bargaining. The United Kingdom fortified its commitment to collective bargaining when it ratified a similar obligation in Article 6 of the European Social Charter in 1972.

The need for collective bargaining, particularly at sectoral level, was brought home when we learned of the appalling conditions and pitiful rates of pay—often less than half the national minimum wage—in the sweatshops of the Leicester garment industry. We saw that need again in the agricultural sector, when an outbreak of Covid-19 among workers at a vegetable farm revealed the appalling living and working conditions among the workers there. We know that, in agriculture, conditions and pay are so bad that it was found necessary to fly pickers in from Romania earlier this season, since British workers, even faced with unemployment and the terrors of universal credit, were not prepared to put up with them.

The answer in these and other sectors was explained long ago in the other place by Sir Winston Churchill, who in 1909 introduced legislation to make sectoral collective bargaining mandatory. I will read three sentences from his speech that day:

“It is a serious national evil that any class of His Majesty’s subjects should receive less than a living wage in return for their utmost exertions.”


He continued:

“where you have what we call sweated trades, you have no organisation, no parity of bargaining, the good employer is undercut by the bad, and the bad employer is undercut by the worst”.

He concluded by saying:

“where those conditions prevail you have not a condition of progress, but a condition of progressive degeneration.”—[Official Report, Commons, 28/4/1909; col. 388.]

Hence, the Trade Boards Act 1909 was introduced and passed.

My noble friend Lord Hain referred to Roosevelt and the New Deal. Part of that was the National Industrial Recovery Act 1933, which introduced sectoral collective bargaining widely in the United States. It is in these circumstances that I stress the modesty of the amendment my noble friend proposes today. There can be no sensible reason not to adopt it, and I commend it to the Minister.

Business and Planning Bill

Lord Cormack Excerpts

2nd reading & 2nd reading (Hansard) & 2nd reading (Hansard): House of Lords
Monday 6th July 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, the last time that I spoke in your Lordships’ Chamber was on Monday 16 March. It was a very different experience from speaking here this afternoon. I begin with a plea to all those who have charge of our proceedings: please let us get back to a normal Chamber as soon as possible. It is impossible to hold the Government to account adequately in either a virtual or a hybrid Chamber, and it is crucial that the Government are held to account. I very much hope that, come September, we will be here on a regular and proper basis.

The Bill illustrates the need for this. It has been given broad and general support by every speaker, and I welcome the Minister to his new role. He has an encyclopaedic knowledge of local government and is the man for the job, but it is the man for the job who needs holding to account. I am broadly supportive, but the devil is in the detail, as with everything. My noble friend Lord Blencathra, the noble Lord, Lord Carlile, the noble Baroness, Lady Doocey, and many others, including the noble Lord, Lord Paddick, in what he said about Soho on Saturday night, pointed out that it is crucial that a Bill such as this, temporary as it is, is properly examined, but the most important thing is that it is temporary, and that the new planning Bill has plenty of chance for discussion in your Lordships’ House as well as the other place.

In the little time at my disposal, I will take up the point made by the noble Earl, Lord Clancarty. The noble Baroness, Lady Doocey, talked about tourism, and she was right. It is a vital industry. However, we must remember why the tourists come here. They do not come for our weather or—excellent as it is often is now—our food. It is very important that the hospitality industry survives, but tourists come for our arts and heritage for the most part. Survey after survey illustrates that this is the case.

Like the noble Earl, Lord Clancarty, I greatly welcome the announcement today about the arts and heritage, but I want to trawl through the detail because it is important that we all do that. However, I regret that no mention is made in the Bill of arts and heritage venues, because they are so crucial not just to the encapsulation of our history but in bringing tourists to our shores. We all know that without our historic houses and castles, our cathedrals and our churches, this country would be a much less attractive place to visit. As a deputy high steward of Lincoln Cathedral, one of the greatest cathedrals in the world and one of the triumphs of Gothic architecture, I know the dire straits that buildings of that magnitude are in. Although it will probably not be possible to incorporate this into the Bill now, I hope that we will all look carefully at today’s announcement to make sure that it really does sustain those organisations which it is meant to sustain.

Covid-19: Strategy

Lord Cormack Excerpts

Tuesday 12th May 2020 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

First, I pay tribute to the police for the fantastic work that they have done. I assure the noble Lord that the Home Office has been working closely with the police to make sure that the new guidance is clear to officers. The police are updating their guidance regularly and those discussions will continue. The overwhelming majority of the public will follow the rules without the need for enforcement action or for the police to take action. That is welcome, but the police must have the ability to act if people are acting recklessly. They have been doing that around the country and we commend them for their great work.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, what plans are there to give museums and galleries the opportunity to reopen in July? These are much appreciated resources. Many of them are also at the heart of our tourist industry. While I completely accept that we could not necessarily just open the doors and let everybody come, we could presumably arrange booking systems so that numbers were controlled as well as distance maintained. Will my noble friend reflect on that and give me some encouragement?

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

One of the many tragedies of the virus is that we are not able to enjoy the fantastic cultural life and sporting events that we may have been looking forward to in the summer. As the noble Lord will know, museums, cinemas and theatres are being looked at under step 3—July at the earliest. However, I have to stress again that all this is based on ensuring that we keep the disease under control. We have seen examples of supermarkets, and other businesses that have been able to remain open through this time, being able to find safe ways to socially distance. Museums and other organisations can learn from that and from the best practice in other countries coming out of lockdown. Then if, as we hope, we get to the point when they are able to open their doors—albeit, perhaps, to a smaller number of visitors—they can do so in a safe way and we can start to see a bit more of normal life return.