Terrorism Act 2000 (Video Recording with Sound of Interviews and Associated Code of Practice) (Northern Ireland) Order 2020

Lord Carlile of Berriew Excerpts

Friday 10th July 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Carlile of Berriew (CB) [V]]

My Lords, I start by making a general statement based on a lot of observation in Northern Ireland. The House should recognise the enormous progress that has been made by the Police Service of Northern Ireland and its clear understanding of the ethical matrix in which it absolutely must operate.

I also think that we should pay tribute to the judiciary in Northern Ireland. If one reads the judgments in the relatively small number of non-jury trials that take place in Northern Ireland, one can see that the quality of scrutiny, as well as of the judgments given, shows the judiciary to be absolutely up-to-date on the issues that have rightly been raised by noble Lords in the debate. For example, an issue was raised a few moments ago about possibly dishonest interpreters. It is absolutely clear—it barely needs saying to those of us who practised in the criminal courts—that an interpreter who is revealed in any way to be dishonest or not translating properly will be warned very clearly by the court. His or her interpretation will be replaced with somebody else’s and they might well face criminal prosecution.

Next, I support what the noble and learned Lord, Lord Garnier, and the noble Lord, Lord Campbell of Pittenweem, said with such clarity. I will not repeat what they said. The noble Lord, Lord Browne of Belmont, referred to body-worn video, which is a very important development in police forces throughout the United Kingdom. It has meant that the public, as we have seen recently, have been able to see what really happened during an incident. The police have been protected, in many cases, by body-worn video showing that allegations made against them might well have been false. It covers everybody and provides greater safety and assurance.

I have a concern that body-worn video might provide a solution to. I ask the noble Viscount, who opened the debate so clearly, to deal with this, either today or in writing. The definition of an “interview” is sometimes not hugely clear. Sometimes what is judged to be an interview takes place outside a police station because of necessity and the exigencies of events. Can we be assured that, when such events take place, they will always be on body-worn video? If they are not, the police must understand that the likelihood of that evidence being admitted is low.