Care Bill [HL]

Lord Campbell-Savours Excerpts

Tuesday 9th July 2013 Lords Chamber

[Lord Campbell-Savours]

Does that mean that a self-funder in a home would therefore know what the local authority rate was going to be? That is what I understand the noble Lord to have just said. The information would flow through, would it not?

[Earl Howe]

The point is that what the local authority pays will be transparent. Individuals can therefore make their own decisions in a much more informed way than they can, maybe, at present.

[Lord Campbell-Savours]

I am sorry to press the noble Earl. As I understand it, in many homes, self-funders are completely unaware of what the local authorities pay.

[Earl Howe]

Under the cap arrangement, there will be for all to see a notional rate that the local authority will pay for care. That is the rate at which the progress against the cap will be measured for a particular individual in a particular area. We are moving to a different system.

[Earl Howe]

Local authorities and individuals can pay different prices for care. That can be because individuals have consciously chosen premium facilities or because the local authority has negotiated a lower price in exchange for buying care for a larger number of people, which can often happen as well. As is the case now, local authorities and providers will continue to negotiate arrangements and fees for providing care and support. This process should ensure that contracts reflect the market price for providing care. Local authorities that fail to negotiate properly with providers and do not have regard to the actual cost risk legal challenges to the care fees that they set. However, in response to the noble Lord, Lord Campbell-Savours, I would say that in future the independent personal budget will set out the cost to the local authority. That is the transparency point that I was trying to get at earlier.

[Lord Campbell-Savours]

I am very sorry but the point is being missed and I think that my noble friend on the Front Bench tried to qualify it. Up to £75,000, the self-funder is paying the full whack. As I understand it, what is being said is that in the same home the local authority rate either will be or will not be available to the self-funder who is paying that full rate. All I want to know is: if they are paying under the £75,000 cap, will they know what the local authority rate is? That is what I am trying to find out.

[Earl Howe]

Yes, my Lords, they will know that.