Leasehold and Freehold Reform Bill

Lord Bishop of Manchester Excerpts

2nd reading
Wednesday 27th March 2024 Lords Chamber

[The Lord Bishop of Manchester]

My Lords, I begin by declaring my interests. I am no longer a church commissioner, as my time finished at the end of last year, but I am paid and—if the Lord spares me—will be pensioned by the Church Commissioners in due course. The commissioners are freeholders, not least of the Hyde Park Estate, which has been in continuous Church ownership and care since around the 11th century, when it belonged to the monks of Westminster Abbey. I guess, if I am going to echo a word that we have used several times today, that makes it genuinely feudal. I also own one leasehold flat in the West Midlands, as set out in the Members’ register.

I support this Bill. It addresses many deep injustices which other noble Lords have addressed and hence I do not wish to repeat. I am also grateful to the noble Baroness the Minister for meeting me and colleagues from the charity sector a few days ago. I am grateful for the comment from the noble Lord, Lord Best, about regulation and the comments from the noble Lord, Lord Young of Cookham, on forfeiture and buildings with fire, safety and other defects. I am also grateful to the noble Earl, Lord Lytton, who is such a doughty campaigner on these matters. It remains a huge scandal that so many people remain trapped owning apartments that are unsaleable.

However, there are three areas that I would like to see explored at later stages; I shall try to be brief for now. The first is about marriage value. Noble Lords might expect a Bishop to support marriage and I will not disappoint. I am grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Moylan, for raising this subject, not least in referring to pension funds, and again to the noble Earl, Lord Lytton, and, most recently, the noble Lord, Lord Howard of Rising. My concerns are with particular reference to charities which own freehold as part of their permanent endowment. We have already heard that some 80% of marriage value in UK relates to properties in and around central London. As several noble Lords, including the noble Earl, Lord Lytton, have stated, many leaseholders in such blocks are corporate and often overseas entities. They are not the people this Bill aims to protect or benefit, nor should it. The Church Commissioners’ Hyde Park properties have an average sale value of £1 million. Those who own them are not, by and large, London’s poor.

The Bill, as drafted, will take money presently used for charity purposes and give it to the wealthy—robbing the poor to pay the rich: a reverse Robin Hood. Lest I be seen as being parti pris, let me offer a non-Church example. John Lyon’s Charity exists to fund children and young people’s services, particularly in nine north and west London boroughs. It is the largest independent funder of children and young people’s services in Greater London and, in 2022-23, it reached the milestone of having awarded over £200 million in grants since 1991. That is over 4,500 grants to over 1,700 organisations. The loss of marriage value could cost it around £3 million per year, money which would go to owners of apartments valued in the millions. John Lyon’s is not the kind of rogue landlord that leaseholders need protecting from.

It is a widely accepted principle of charity law, accepted even when right-to-buy legislation was extended from council housing to many housing association tenants, that charity assets should not be transferred to individuals or bodies that would not qualify as their beneficiaries. This Bill seems to fly in the face of that principle. Is it possible to exempt charities? It appears that the National Trust already has such an exemption and one not restricted to those parts of its estate that are inalienable under Act of Parliament. The principle of exemption is not at stake; what we need to talk about is its extent. Will Ministers look at whether that exemption, or one similar to it, afforded to the National Trust could be extended to encompass other charities? Should that prove impossible, will they put forward a full compensation scheme for when a charity loses marriage value?

My remaining two points relate specifically to mixed blocks in town and city centres. Typically, you will get a ground floor of retail, then there will be some floors of offices and then the residential floors on top. These points might well have been addressed by us moving away from leasehold entirely but, while it remains, they need to be addressed if our town and city centres are to be the vibrant hubs that we need.

First, how are we to prevent groups of enfranchised leaseholders, particularly if many of them are overseas companies, from neglecting the community facilities—ground-floor shops, and sometimes even schools? I have heard it said by one of my colleagues that, on one estate, we could end up with a whole load of vaping or mobile phone shops. We would lose all the shops that really matter to those who live perhaps not in that block but locally. Can the Government offer amendments that will enshrine ways to protect the non-residential parts of blocks, particularly those areas devoted to community and retail uses, or can we limit those entitled to vote on decisions about their properties to actual individual residents in person, rather than remote and often disinterested corporate entities, which would see shops as a way in which to get a rental income, not a service to a community in which they play no part?

Finally, I am concerned that the reduction of threshold for enfranchisement could lead to less building of homes in town and city centres—or we could end up with too few homes and too much office space. I am aware that I am taking a different view from that of the noble Lord, Lord Truscott, a few minutes ago, so perhaps we need to establish the facts. Have His Majesty’s Government undertaken an impact assessment on future home building and, if not, will they do so, and report to your Lordships’ House during the passage of this Bill?

I believe that this is a good Bill, but one capable of improvement, and I look forward to continuing to engage with it through its later stages.

Leasehold and Freehold Reform Bill

Lord Bishop of Manchester Excerpts

Committee stage
Wednesday 24th April 2024 Lords Chamber

Moved by

[The Lord Bishop of Manchester]

28: Schedule 4, page 161, line 15, at end insert—
“(3A) But in a case where the freeholder is a charity and the freehold interest was vested in that charity immediately before the passing of this Act—(a) assumption 2 must not be made, and(b) accordingly, marriage and hope value are payable.”Member's explanatory statement
This amendment would provide that, where the freeholder in the case of a lease extension or freehold enfranchisement is a charity which had owned the freehold interest since before the passing of the Bill, marriage and hope value are payable.

[The Lord Bishop of Manchester]

My Lords, while I thoroughly enjoyed that previous group, I hope this one will not prove quite so wide-ranging. In tabling these amendments, my aim is to deal with an issue that in the charity world is specific to a small number of bodies but would severely impact the work that they do. First, I am a leaseholder myself, as it happens, as set out in the register of interests. I have been through the process of extending my lease; my flat is not in London, and it was quite a simple and cheap process. Secondly, although I am no longer on the board of governors of the Church Commissioners, it is the body that pays my stipend, owns my home and covers my working expenses, so I declare that interest too.

The commissioners are directly affected by the proposals in the Bill. They would indeed benefit from my amendments but, as has already been mentioned by the noble Lord, Lord Truscott, in the previous group, that charity is large enough to withstand the adverse impact. Smaller charities would struggle much harder to maintain their work, and it is their case I seek to plead today.

As I said at Second Reading, I wholeheartedly support the central thrust of the Bill, which is to protect leaseholders from freeholders who exploit them as a cash cow. I also agree that leasehold is ripe for bold reform. I have spoken repeatedly in your Lordships’ House on behalf of victims of the cladding scandal, as well as joining them on public platforms in Manchester. My lifelong commitment to those in housing need is well known in this House and that commitment remains undiminished.

I was unable to be in my seat on Monday and I am grateful that my right reverend friend the Bishop of Derby spoke to an amendment in my name that day. Having carefully read the report of that debate in Hansard, I have informed the Whips’ Office that I no longer intend to oppose the question that Clause 47 stand part of the Bill, nor does my co-signatory, the noble Lord, Lord Thurlow. I have taken that step as I believe my efforts at this stage are best focused on the specific issue of charities and marriage value. I apologise to noble Lords for the lateness of that decision but hope that they will take it as a sign that even a bishop can be penitent.

To focus on the subject of this group, in England there are a small number of charities, probably no more than a dozen, all of them with long and distinguished histories, which, in centuries far past, came into the possession of land lying largely within just a few miles of this House. As London grew and the land increased in value, rather than simply selling it and seeking to invest elsewhere—remember that back then there were far fewer opportunities for investment—the charities stuck with the business they knew and understood. They kept the freeholds and have used them as regular and predictable sources of income to drive their work. The charities, apart from the commissioners, of which I am aware, are John Lyon’s Charity, the Portal Trust, the Dulwich Estate, the London Diocesan Fund, Merchant Taylors’ Boone’s Charity, and Campden Charities —not a large number.

John Lyon’s Charity was gifted its land in St John’s Wood about 500 years ago. Income from being the freeholder, principally through marriage value, provides it with about £4 million per annum, which is one-quarter of its total income. Marriage value is not a matter, as we have heard, in which the freeholder can set their own arbitrary figure. It is not open to the abuses that have been associated with ground rents. It is also the case that around 80% of all marriage value is in or around the capital. This is a very London-focused issue.

The money that John Lyon’s Charity receives enables it to be one of the principal providers of youth services to some of London’s most needy children. Properties on its holdings sell for around £5 million. The leaseholders who purchase them are not London’s poor and needy. Many are not resident in the premises, which are let out to tenants. A typical leaseholder on such an estate is, as we have heard in previous debates, more than likely to be a wealthy overseas investor or corporation. I have nothing against them, but the Bill, in its present form, will transfer money used presently for youth work to these very rich organisations and individuals. It will present them with an entirely unearned windfall, hence my comments at Second Reading about this being a “reverse Robin Hood”.

I have been told that the Bill needs to be kept simple, and that making any exceptions will unnecessarily complicate it. Of course, there is already an exception for the National Trust, but I will not debate that any further. However, the simplest solution to a problem is not always the right one. In any battle between simplicity and justice, justice must always prevail.

I have also been told that it would be wrong for some leaseholders not to profit from the abolition of marriage value when others, whose freeholders are not charities, do. I will not go back as far as my good friend, the noble and right reverend Lord, Lord Sentamu, did when citing Magna Carta in the previous debate, but there is another principle that is long established: the assets of a charity should not be alienated from it at anything less than full market value, except where those assets are being applied directly to the purposes set out in the charity’s objects clause. That principle has been applied even to such flagship Conservative projects as tenants’ right to buy, in which charitable housing associations were excepted as not being forced to sell properties at a discounted value, unless that discount was being made up from elsewhere. I have not heard any case, not even an unconvincing one, as to why leaseholders of charity-owned freeholds should be treated more favourably than charity tenants.

My amendments in this group offer one way forward. They stipulate that marriage value should continue to apply in cases where the charity owned the freehold before the Act came into effect. There would be no loophole allowing charities to purchase freeholds and apply marriage value in future, nor any opportunity for other bodies to seek to register as charities thereafter. From day one, those leaseholders with charity freeholders should know exactly who they are.

We could tighten it up even further—this is still just Committee stage. It would make little difference if the exemptions applied only to charities, or their predecessors, which owned the freehold prior to 1950, which would of course exclude most housing association leasehold properties. Given how few they are, we could even name them in a schedule. We could explore how marriage value for charities might be phased out over a period of some decades, as was referred to more generally in the previous group, instead of the impact hitting in full in the first year. We can also look at ways of compensating charities in full for the loss of assets—again, an issue referred to in the previous group. I note the Minister’s comments that to fully compensate all freeholders would be an unfair burden on the taxpayer. We are talking here about something much smaller—a small number of charities severely impacted—and I beg to suggest that that can be afforded. None of this needs to slow down the progress of this much-needed Bill through your Lordships’ House.

I am grateful to the Minister, who has already met me and representatives of some of the affected charities, written to us setting out the Government’s current position, and assured us that she remains ready to meet again. I greatly appreciate her openness to such conversations. I also appreciate the Opposition Front Bench for similarly listening to our concerns. I look forward to hearing the views of other Members of your Lordships’ House, so that the charities impacted can have a better sense of where we might find ways forward to tackle this problem. In the meantime, I beg to move.

[Lord Moylan (Con)]

My Lords, it is a pleasure to follow the right reverend Prelate the Bishop of Manchester, and I have added my name to his amendments.

There is a great deal that I could say on this issue but, since I said most of it in the debate on the last group, I shall keep my remarks fairly short. I can add a little personal knowledge of one charity to which the right reverend Prelate refers, because it is very Kensington-based. I have no connection with it and no interest to declare—but Campden Charities was started in the 17th century by Count Campden, a devout Puritan. When he died, he left a charitable endowment, naturally in the shape of land that he owned, for the benefit of the poor youth of Kensington. His widow, when she died, did likewise with her property—hence the plural. It is Campden Charities: technically, they are two separate endowments, but they are run as one. They own land in Kensington to this day from which they have an income, and they continue to support the poor youth of Kensington—and there are poor youths in Kensington—giving them grants to allow them to continue their education and apprenticeships, and work of that sort. Their income is now going to be, to some extent by this measure, reduced and expropriated.

As I say, apparently as Conservatives we feel no embarrassment in doing this—we feel no constraint on us. We are too tender and too ginger to feel that we can expropriate the assets of ill-doers such as Putin’s friends—they are sacrosanct. But those who do good, such as charities, can have their money taken away with very little debate and handed to leaseholders who may or may not be poor and meritorious. Who knows? What is it next, I wonder, for my noble friends on the Front Bench? Shall we be stealing the widow’s mite from the poor box?

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Gascoigne (Con)]

Obviously, I completely respect my noble friend, but I think I have answered that point.

[The Lord Bishop of Manchester]

My Lords, I thank all noble Lords who have taken part in this debate, which has been somewhat less emotive than the previous one. I am grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Moylan, for his support, and for his description of the good work that is done by the Campden Charities for young people in Kensington. I am particularly grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Bailey of Paddington, who spoke movingly of how that same charity has been part of what has enabled him to become the great asset he is to your Lordships’ House today, and to the noble Earl, Lord Lytton, for his helpful and insightful questions.

I am grateful to the noble Baroness, Lady Pinnock, for asking whether other charities, including those outside London, are affected. While I cannot guarantee that my list is exhaustive, I am pretty sure that if there are any that we have missed, they would quickly come forward, but I do not think that there are many.

I thank the noble Baroness, Lady Taylor of Stevenage, both for her meeting yesterday and for her support for the matter being further considered. Can we find a workaround that does not disapply the whole principles of the Bill, but which deals with the problem that these particularly good causes are going to suffer as things stand? I am very happy to look at some tighter drafting, as she suggested. I am grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Gascoigne, for his response, and for his willingness, and that of the noble Baroness, Lady Scott, to continue to engage with us on this matter.

In the previous debate, we were told that compensation for loss of marriage value would be too much of a strain on the taxpayer. We are talking about a very much smaller amount here, and I wonder whether that would be a course that we could continue to pursue in further conversations before Report. For now, I beg leave to withdraw my amendment.

Amendment 28 withdrawn.