Biodiversity

Lord Benyon Excerpts

Thursday 16th September 2010 Westminster Hall

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Richard Benyon)]

It is a great pleasure to serve under your watchful eye this afternoon, Mr Crausby, in this important debate during the international year of biodiversity. It is a crucial time to debate this vital subject.

Progress has been made, in some areas, both in the UK and internationally, to reduce the rate of loss of biodiversity. For example, 94.3% of sites of special scientific interest in England are now in favourable or recovering condition, and we have seen increases in species such as otters, bitterns and stone curlews as a result of conservation action.

However, the overarching global picture is stark. We know that the global target to reduce the rate of loss of the world’s precious biodiversity by 2010 has not been met. Biodiversity continues to be lost at an accelerated rate as a result of human activity, and we know that that puts at risk the huge range of benefits that we get from the natural environment. That concerns us all, which is why my Department has made enhancing and protecting biodiversity one of its highest priorities.

Despite our growing knowledge of its value, the natural environment faces major challenges. For years, the economy and the natural environment have been pitted against each other as if they were competing choices, rather than being interdependent. Globally, it is estimated that the degradation of our planet’s ecosystems costs us some £42 billion each year—a figure that could rise to the equivalent of 7% of global gross domestic product by 2050. We are choosing to lose the valuable benefits of a healthy natural environment on a massive scale. A vibrant natural environment is not a luxury for the good times—it is a necessity for economic recovery and sustainable growth in the long term.

At the international level, we are committed to helping to develop a post-2010 framework on biodiversity that will deliver progress where it matters—on the ground. Next week, my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs will attend the United Nations General Assembly’s special session on biodiversity. This will be the first time that biodiversity has had a day dedicated to it at the General Assembly, and that day will be the final day of the launch of the review of the millennium development goals. It is a particularly important event and an opportunity for us to highlight the interrelationship between biodiversity, poverty and development.

In October, the Secretary of State will lead the UK delegation at the conference in Nagoya of the parties to the convention on biological diversity. We will seek to agree demanding new global targets for biodiversity, among other things. The meeting in Nagoya represents a critical moment in the history of the convention, and in human history. We cannot afford to miss that opportunity.

In England, we will set out our plans for responding to the new international framework, and for taking action on biodiversity, in a natural environment White Paper—the first since 1990. Through the White Paper process, we will, by spring next year, develop a bold and ambitious statement that will outline the Government’s priorities for the natural environment. We will do that by setting out a framework for practical action by the Government, communities, businesses and civil society organisations to deliver on our commitment. We want to develop new and imaginative solutions to tackling the problem of biodiversity loss, and to learn from the experience of others. We launched the discussion document on the White Paper on 26 July and are keen to receive views on it via our website or by post until 30 October.

Restoring and expanding priority habitats remains a major challenge if we are to tackle biodiversity loss successfully. We look forward to receiving soon Sir John Lawton’s report, “Making Space for Nature”, on the review of England’s wildlife sites and ecological networks. It will help to inform our thinking on the way forward.

We know from progress updates that the review is likely to conclude that we do not have a coherent and resilient ecological network in England, but that establishing one will help to reverse the declines in our biodiversity and deliver many other benefits to society such as soil protection, clean water, flood attenuation and carbon sequestration. We will respond to the report’s recommendations through the natural environment White Paper as part of our commitment to promoting green spaces and wildlife corridors to halt the loss of habitats.

Of course, we must also continue to protect the best of England’s wildlife areas. As set out in our departmental reform plan, we are dedicated to protecting the green belt, sites of special scientific interest and other environmentally protected areas.

The Government are also committed to protecting marine biodiversity, which is central to the UK’s economic and social well-being, as well as having intrinsic value. Our aim is to achieve clean, healthy, safe, productive and biologically diverse seas and oceans. To achieve that, we seek to address the decline in marine biodiversity and to allow recovery, where appropriate, by implementing a wide range of measures while managing competition between conservation and socio-economic needs.

Marine protected areas are one of the major tools that we will use to conserve biodiversity and associated ecosystem services. In August, the UK put forward to the European Commission 15 new European marine sites for designation. That increase means that 24% of English inshore waters will be covered by marine protected areas. Over the next period, four stakeholder-led regional projects will work to identify possible marine conservation zones.

[Huw Irranca-Davies (Ogmore) (Lab)]

I very much welcome the announcement on marine protected areas that the Minister has repeated today. Will he give us a brief update on the four projects, mentioning not only the tie-in with socio-economic factors but whether they will be able to generate, in short order, a good, ecologically coherent network of marine conservation zones, including some no-take zones?

[Richard Benyon]

I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for his intervention. I hope that when we have implemented what he started in Government, he will find something of which he can be immensely proud, as the projects are very much his legacy. We are working well with the four areas. On occasion, I have in my office people who represent socio-economic groups telling me that we are going too far in one direction, and then green non-governmental organisations tell me that we are going too far in the other direction. That makes me wonder—I am only half joking when I say this—whether we might not be getting it just about right.

I am not ignoring the difficulties. I want to ensure that the projects work and that, where possible, we iron out difficulties. I am free to be candid with the hon. Gentleman and anyone else about where I believe those difficulties exist. Working with the stakeholders, I am trying to get around them all. I am determined to stick to the timetable for 2012, but I will not do that at the expense of getting it right; we have waited a long time for the projects, and I want to get them right. However, I think that we can do that in the time scale that we have given ourselves.

[Huw Irranca-Davies]

I welcome the Minister’s reassurance, and I know that he shares my commitment. At the risk of sounding like I am giving advice from the subs’ bench, the one thing that I would urge—helpfully, I hope—is that he ensures that the decisions taken by those genuine partnerships, where everyone has their say, are solidly underpinned by the right criteria, and by the right judgments based on the best available evidence on marine biology and biodiversity. We would be concerned if the outcome were diluted in any way, or if undue compromises were made.

[Richard Benyon]

That was a concern throughout the passage of the Marine and Coastal Access Act 2009, and it remains a concern for many people. The hon. Gentleman will remember the tortuous process that we went through to establish what we meant by “ecological coherence”, but we have a clear description in the guidance now and I think that we can deliver on it. I hope that we will develop precisely that ecological coherence across the four projects, but he is right: they have to be underpinned by good science, not only for all the reasons that everybody knows about, but because they need credibility, and they will not be underlined with credibility if we have cut corners in any respect. Marine conservation zones, together with European marine sites, SSSIs, and Ramsar sites, will form part of the ecologically coherent network across the UK’s waters that the hon. Gentleman envisaged when he took the Act through Parliament. We will work with devolved Governments in Scotland, Wales and—soon, we hope—Northern Ireland to fulfil our obligations across the UK.

The international year of biodiversity is about engaging people. We need to promote the importance of biodiversity to our economy and well-being, and encourage people to get involved in making a difference. That is why the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs has been part-funding a partnership this year, hosted by the natural history museum, to support activities in the UK. Over 430 organisations are involved, all helping to raise the profile of biodiversity among the British public this year—for example, through a series of more then 30 BioBlitz citizen science events around the country, which have been engaging tens of thousands of people with the nature on their doorstep.

We know that protecting our biodiversity needs to be done in partnership. That approach will be even more important in the years ahead, and is already being put into practice through initiatives such as the campaign for the farmed environment, which genuinely has the potential to transform our countryside, protect local ecosystems and increase our native biodiversity. It is important for farmers to grasp this opportunity and prove that these important outcomes can be achieved by working with conservation groups and Government. The Lawton review will indicate what we are doing to protect SSSIs, nature sites and reserves, but we must recognise that 70% or more of the space between those islands of excellence is farmed. Many farmers are doing wonderful things, but the real gains in reversing the decline of biodiversity over recent decades will be made in those spaces.

In line with our commitment to shifting the balance of power from big government to big society, we will work closely with all interested parties—individuals, businesses, civil society groups, land managers, local authorities and many more—to articulate a new, compelling and integrated vision for sustaining and managing our natural environment.

The natural environment White Paper will set out a programme of action designed to put the value of the natural environment at the heart of Government and identify new ways of enabling local authorities and local communities to protect and enhance it. We need to consider biodiversity in the context of climate change, where biodiversity plays a hugely important mitigation and adaptation role. We also need to factor the value of ecosystem services, which are fundamentally supported by biodiversity, into our development and accounting processes.

We should value the contribution that biodiversity makes to our quality of life by inspiring and enriching our lives, and by contributing to our health and well-being. That is why the Government have supported the global study by leading economist Pavan Sukhdev, “The Economics of Ecosystems and Biodiversity”. I recently met him and was interested to hear his wish that he had called it TEN—“The Economics of Nature”—rather than TEEB, as he believes that that is easier for people to understand than a title that includes the words “ecosystems” and “biodiversity”. We understand what he means, and the value of the work that he is doing. We want to transpose the work that he is doing globally on to a UK, European and certainly English perspective.

We recognise that we need to harness the interest generated by Pavan Sukhdev’s study and to maintain its momentum beyond Nagoya. That is why the Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs and the German Minister, Norbert Röttgen, are co-hosting a ministerial-level lunch in the margins of the United Nations General Assembly in New York next week. The purpose of that is to encourage more countries to mainstream valuation in Government policy, maintain the momentum generated by TEEB, and identify initiatives and ideas for embedding the valuation of biodiversity and ecosystems in decision making across Government. As we are joined by two vice-presidents of the Global Legislators Organisation for a Balanced Environment, I want to pay tribute to the work that it is doing in, among other things, encouraging activity on governance so that we can try to embed such valuation in our thinking.

I am grateful for a recent meeting with GLOBE; there was some good thinking on the creation of ministerial posts and on accountancy—the machinery of government, if you like—aimed at embedding such valuing of our natural environment in what we do. There was also thinking on requiring Departments to develop natural capital inventories and to integrate the real value of natural capital into policy-making processes. That is important, and I look forward to taking forward that work with GLOBE and others.

The Darwin initiative has been running since 1993, and has provided over £79 million of financial support to 728 conservation projects in 156 countries. I met the chairman of the Darwin advisory committee, Professor Macdonald, earlier this week, and I hope that we can announce the next round of funding under the scheme later this year. He is one of the most engaging and impressive people I have met for a very long time, and I look forward to working with him on the important work that he and his committee are doing. We are also doing a lot of work on assessing the state of our ecosystems through the national ecosystem assessment. That includes studying how the value of our ecosystem services and biodiversity has changed over the past 60 years, and how it might change in future. It is only by understanding the past that we can plan for the future.

The way we deliver on our commitments will be placed in the context of our overall requirement to reduce the deficit and reflect the Government’s plans for reducing regulatory burdens. We will have to await the outcome of the spending review to know what resources will be allocated to this important area. However, we know that we can no longer afford the costs to our economy and our quality of life that arise from a degraded natural environment.

The international year of biodiversity provides an ideal opportunity to focus on the challenges ahead and to develop workable solutions. It will take an ambitious and radical transformation in our economy, our society and the way we secure our future, but the prize is worth it, and essential for our well-being.

--- Later in debate ---

[Richard Benyon]

I am glad that I have just under two hours to respond to the many and diverse points that have been made this afternoon in what has been a fantastically useful debate. It has unlocked some of the talent that we have in this place, across the House, on these important issues. I will respond in as much detail as I can provide to the points that have been raised and if I cannot respond now, that is either because I cannot speak about financial matters with as much willingness as I would like until after 20 October or because I do not know the answer, in which case I will write to the hon. Member concerned.

I want to start by paying tribute to the hon. Member for Brent North (Barry Gardiner) for what I thought was a very powerful speech, which established the absolute importance of knowing, first of all, where we are on biodiversity. We cannot measure whether we are continuing to see a decline in biodiversity, holding the line or reversing that decline unless we know where we are. There are all sorts of indicators that we use to measure diversity, but they are relatively blunt tools; I am the first to admit that. I think that there are wider measures that we need to apply.

The hon. Gentleman talked about the need to value natural capital. When we talk about our natural environment White Paper or our passion for this subject, some people nod and think, “Oh, good, here’s a Minister or here’s a Department that values our natural environment in the general sense,” and I say, “No, we are actually talking about real value, in the economic sense.” Until we do that, we will not get to where we need to be and I am grateful for suggestions about how to embed the valuation of natural capital into Government decision making.

That is precisely the type of issue that the Secretary of State will be discussing with other Environment Ministers in New York next week, to bring together ideas and initiatives for embedding the valuation of biodiversity and ecosystems across government. It is also a theme that we will take forward in our thinking in the White Paper.

The hon. Gentleman and others, including the hon. Member for Ogmore (Huw Irranca-Davies), made the point that the impoverishment of our natural environment hits worst those who are least able to deal with it the poorest. That is why this issue is not something for some leafy backwater of Government; it is absolutely at the heart of every single Department.

If our constituents are concerned about the pressures of international migration, they should be interested that we are supporting forests, environments and ecosystems that will sustain agriculture and life, and they should also be interested that the marine environment is sustained in parts of the world where it is currently being degraded at an alarming rate. They should be interested because that environmental degradation puts pressure on societies such as ours, both through migration and the impending catastrophe that is a war brought about by poverty and all the other related pressures. So this issue of biodiversity is absolutely at the heart of everything that we are talking about; issues do not get much more important than biodiversity.

[Barry Gardiner]

Given what the Minister has just said, he will perhaps reflect on the fact that, in the horn of Africa, we have seen what are often referred to as the first climate change wars. The desertification that has gone on there has seen the collapse of civil society and spawned the lawlessness that has given rise to piracy on the high seas around the horn of Africa. From that perspective, we see countries such as our own and the US, and international shipping generally, spending millions of pounds in that region on insuring ships and providing navies to escort and safeguard ships in that region. Yet we spend nothing, relatively, on sorting out the ecological and environmental problem of the desertification that has caused that piracy in the first place. Does he not agree that that is the case?

[Richard Benyon]

As before, the hon. Gentleman has got it exactly right. Elsewhere in Parliament, Members are debating the strategic defence and security review. Part of that review involves how we will fund the type of operations being carried out in the seas off the horn of Africa. It is precisely because fisheries in those seas and agricultural systems in the region have been degraded, as well as the fact that the governance that supports a civilised society has been allowed to collapse in that region, that we now have to spend millions of pounds every year as part of an international campaign to counter that issue of piracy.

[Zac Goldsmith]

On that point, has the Minister been able to discuss the environmental causes of poverty with the Secretary of State for International Development? Given that the international development budget is one of the few that will be largely unaffected by the cuts—at least we think that is the case—it seems to me that there is huge potential to transform completely the way in which, historically, that money has been spent. We should start focusing it on tackling real environmental sources of poverty—for example, restoring forests to boost the water table and to stop women having to walk 5 miles to get water, or restoring fisheries to revitalise fishing communities, and so on. If the Secretary of State for International Development was to put much greater emphasis on the environmental causes of poverty, I believe that we might see some real progress in tackling these huge issues.

[Richard Benyon]

I am grateful to my hon. Friend for making that point. My right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs regularly meets the Secretary of State for International Development, but last week she met him and the Secretary of State for Energy and Climate Change. They were talking about sustainability and they are going to New York next week to talk about the millennium development goals. We cannot achieve those goals unless we have sustainability at the heart of our actions.

My hon. Friend points out, quite rightly, that one can achieve quick wins in international development: we can have a gift from the people of Britain of a pump that is put on some giant structure that perhaps pumps thousands of gallons of water every day into some irrigation system. However, we could have a much more sustainable solution, which provides a better deal for the British taxpayer as well as for that environment, by protecting the ecosystem that provides the water in the first place. I know that I am preaching to the choir here, but that point must be understood across Government and that is why sustainability must be at the heart of our actions.

The hon. Member for Brent North also touched on the issue of coastal erosion. He talked about coastal erosion in the gulf of Mexico, but I saw coastal erosion nearer to home last week, or the week before—the weeks are merging into one at the moment. I went to Norfolk and Suffolk and saw for myself what is a quite—I use my words carefully—frightening prospect for communities living in that area. During the last 50 years, the collective class of politicians has been party to a slight con of the people in certain coastal areas of Britain, in arguing that this concept of “holding the line” is achievable amid the modern pressures of our economy. The idea that we can ring large parts of our coast with constructions of steel and concrete for ever more—that is just not going to happen. Therefore, we must certainly develop innovative financial solutions to hold the line where we can, but we must also look at some of the sustainable solutions that the hon. Gentleman was discussing, such as salt flats, mudflats and other constructions that work. There is wonderful work going on and I am really impressed by the people that I meet in the Environment Agency and in the Department who completely get the necessity of taking that route.

The hon. Gentleman also talked about measuring cost, which was also touched on by the hon. Member for Ogmore, who speaks from their party’s Front Bench, in relation to eco-tourism. To a brutally simplistic economist advising a Japanese whaling company, the value of a whale would be calculated in terms of the value of the product as against the cost of harvesting that animal in whatever part of the seas it is found, and the cost of the fuel for the ship. However, if we compare that with the value of that animal as a global eco-tourism resource, we see that there is no viability in whaling at all. Whaling can survive only with huge investments from Governments to support the few jobs that remain in the industry. That was brought home to me very clearly when I went to the International Whaling Commission in Agadir. The number of species, including whales, and the scale of the fish stocks that we manage to maintain in our oceans are also indicators of the general state of the seas. Therefore, the issues that the hon. Gentlemen covered are incredibly important.

My hon. Friend the Member for North Swindon (Justin Tomlinson) put a local perspective on the importance of engaging local people, which is vital. In our structural reform plan, our business plan for the Department, we said that we will work with the Department for Communities and Local Government to protect green areas of particular importance to local communities. As we develop housing, we must understand that we can build an enormous number of benefits into new housing schemes—sustainable drainage systems, green open spaces or a conservation credit system—to replace the biodiversity lost due to the creation of those communities. Ultimately, though, it is the constituents and the people who live in our communities whose well-being it is in all our interests to maintain. Therefore, the right environment is vital, and he is right to raise the issue.

The hon. Member for Bishop Auckland (Helen Goodman) made a powerful plea in support of plants as an important part of biodiversity. Too often, we think of biodiversity in terms of fur and feather. She is absolutely right that plants are intrinsically important. I went to the natural history museum within days of my appointment, and was shown the mind map that is biodiversity. Mammals are a tiny part of it. Compared with fungi and plant life, we are a small part of that great picture. The hon. Lady is right: that is why the millennium seed bank is important. We should all feel proud that it is based here in Britain.

I can give the hon. Lady the comfort that one part of the conservation zeitgeist in Britain at the moment is landscape-scale conservation. The Royal Society for the Protection of Birds cares about that, and it is the purpose of areas of outstanding natural beauty, national parks and wildlife trusts. It draws together key areas with farmland in between and does conservation work on that scale. That is how to succeed, and how the plants that she talks about will be protected.

The hon. Lady and the hon. Member for Ongar mentioned peat, which is important to the Government. I recently visited the Peak District national park and saw the impressive peat restoration project there. I had not understood how degraded the peat had become due to the effects of a century or more of pollution, or what work, skills and technologies were involved in the vital job of protecting it.

At the other end of the argument, it is vital that we consider the market for peat and ensure that it is sustainable. The quick win is getting companies such as B&Q to use man-made products; it is the smaller companies, the local garage and other such outlets selling peat that must be worked on. We love having summits; I hope that they are summits with a purpose. We are having a peat summit at which we will get together with all the companies that sell peat to ensure that we drive forward that vital agenda.

[Huw Irranca-Davies]

May I suggest that, as part of that peat summit or an extension of it, the Minister engages with his ministerial colleagues in the Department for Business, Innovation and Skills and elsewhere? One opportunity in a transfer from traditional peat extractive industries to industries based on substitute products, if it is done in a joined-up way, is that we can create and lead in the European market a new industry involving green environmental substitutes for peat. That is a great opportunity for UK plc and British industry, but it cannot be left to the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs alone; it will require engagement with other Departments.

--- Later in debate ---

[Richard Benyon]

I agree entirely. That is where Government and local government can lead. It can be written into section 106 agreements that green spaces will be maintained in an environmentally friendly way, including the use of such products. That will create a market that can be developed so the cost base comes down, and people can start to make the right choice when purchasing fuel.

The hon. Member for Bishop Auckland and others mentioned the uplands. They are a matter of absolute importance to us, as is the support that we can provide to those who manage them—the people who live and work in some of the most hostile climates in this country—and maintain them for the benefit of us all. The Minister of State—my hon. Friend the Member for South East Cambridgeshire (Mr Paice)—and I are working closely on policies that will support the uplands, and we will make an announcement in the near future.

[Huw Irranca-Davies]

One concern doing the rounds of the rumour mill here is that higher-level stewardship might not be part of those considerations any more. If the Government are so minded—I do not expect the Minister to tell me today whether HLS will continue—will he give a commitment that whatever schemes come after it will deliver at least the benefits of existing schemes? Otherwise, we will go backwards in terms of biodiversity.

[Richard Benyon]

I wish that I could answer that question precisely, but until I am 101% certain, I cannot give the hon. Gentleman the reply that he deserves. However, we value HLS and understand its importance, and I hope to be able to satisfy his concerns in the near future.

[Barry Gardiner]

To reinforce what I know is the consensus here on the importance of uplands management, it may be useful in discussions if the Minister asks his civil servants to prepare a document along the lines of the valuation of natural capital, which we discussed earlier, that includes a precise valuation from a tourism and aesthetic point of view, as well as other elements, of natural capital valuation. Those are the arguments that will have to be weighed in the Treasury, as we all understand, so those methods can be used to protect an incredibly important subsidy scheme for farmers and keep some of the most important hill farmers going.

[Richard Benyon]

I entirely understand that point, but we cannot support HLS to the exclusion of other systems. The benefit of entry-level stewardship is that it is done over a lot of space. Others have spoken today about the need for connectivity between our natural sites; agricultural land is the key to getting that right. It is important to get the balance right. I assure the hon. Gentleman that I hear the points that have been made.

My hon. Friend the Member for Richmond Park (Zac Goldsmith) spoke in support of the points made by the hon. Member for Brent North, and noted, as I have done, the important work being done with farmers by water companies. That has been a revelation to me, and I have started to think about how it can be extended. I applaud the water companies that are doing such work for showing us how caring for the natural environment saves the taxpayer from having to build large constructions, nitrate-stripping plants and so on. Ultimately, too, the customer gets better-quality water at less cost, the environment is protected and the farmer is rewarded. It is an entirely virtuous circle for ecosystems, and I am slightly incredulous that I did not twig earlier in life that that is obviously the way forward. I applaud those doing it.

The hon. Member for Ongar mentioned the Darwin initiative—

[Huw Irranca-Davies]

For the sake of the record—knowing that at some point some committed person might read this debate—I am the Member for Ogmore.

[Richard Benyon]

I apologise. The hon. Gentleman and I have sparred for many years; I do not know what has got into me. Ogmore—how disgraceful of me to get it wrong.

[Huw Irranca-Davies]

Or Ogwr, in Welsh.

[Richard Benyon]

I will try the English version. The hon. Gentleman mentioned the Darwin initiative. I spoke about it earlier, and I know of its value. In my conversation with Professor Macdonald, I discussed things that I had seen in parts of the world where there is great pressure between local people and certain species that we in the west might value, such as elephants, large cats and tigers. We need to lever funding to encourage local people to value those species, rather than see them as a threat to their existence. That is very much the case with elephants in northern Kenya, for example, where group ranching schemes can be operated with local people. Such schemes allow local people to get value from tolerating those animals. Those are the sorts of things that the Darwin initiative has been particularly good at, and I want to see it do such things in future.

There has been much talk today about the Treasury. My experience of those who work in the Treasury is that they are very warm and cuddly souls who have nothing but the milk of human kindness flowing in their veins, so I hope that some of the apocalyptic views of the future of funding will not come to pass. Ultimately, it comes down to how these matters are viewed at the highest levels in Government, and the issues of the natural environment and biodiversity are absolutely at the core of the highest levels of this Government. In our Department, those issues are part of our three main areas of priority.

Some of today’s comments have been about how to get across the message on biodiversity, and how we brand it in a way that people understand. I was very taken by the words of Jonathon Porritt, who some years ago admitted that if the green movement has a problem it is that it can be unutterably miserable about the prospects for our globe, planet, society and existence. He said that if the green movement could be more optimistic, it might be listened to by more people. That was very self-effacing and courageous. If we try to communicate the problems about biodiversity purely by saying that the situation is miserable and terrible things are happening, it becomes a weight on people’s shoulders that, in their busy lives, they do not want to bother with. We need to make people feel close to the issue and encourage them to become involved with it—whether that is with the local countryside around where they live, or through concern for an international species that is under threat or the marine environment where they go on holiday. Those are the sort of drivers that will be much more effective in unleashing the undoubted enthusiasm that exists in society for this key cornerstone of our existence.

The hon. Member for Ogmore talked about his experience on ministerial visits. I had a fascinating visit to Bristol where, just a few yards from 500,000 people, I saw some plants being protected that do not exist anywhere else within the Avon gorge, and I was practically dive-bombed by a peregrine. All of that existence was being maintained locally by enthusiastic volunteers, a committed local authority, and government in the form of Natural England and others doing their bit and working together. I completely understand the need for partnership. I also understand the importance of uniting the environment, the economy and society in one concept to deal with the issue.

I will now tackle the specific questions that the hon. Member for Ogmore put to me. We very much hope that the issues of access and benefit sharing can be taken forward at Nagoya. That is an absolute priority. Some people are depressed about the prospects for Nagoya, but that should not mean that we do not try our hardest. We do not want a clash between the developed world, the fast-developing world and the developing world, which is way behind. That dynamic is not insurmountable; we can find a way through. I welcome the fact that a number of different people are going there. I also welcome the fact that GLOBE is so much at the centre of trying to push the concept of doing the work set out in TEEB, and of putting the issues of biodiversity, ecosystems, and green accounting—valuing our natural environment—at the heart of Government.

On Lawton, I share the hon. Gentleman’s enthusiasm. National parks and AONBs all have a role in our campaign to reverse the decline in biodiversity. That will be absolutely vital for a host of organisations, including those that are voluntary or member-led—the National Trust, the Wildlife Trusts, small local groups and many more. I look forward to hearing what Sir John says in his report and I applaud the work that he and others have done. I have seen at first hand—well, through a video link—a BioBlitz in Bristol. They are very impressive. It was truly impressive to see young people engaged in that way.

The hon. Gentleman wants to know how we are going to take the matter forward and whether at the end of the international year of biodiversity we are going to forget all about it. No, we are not. He and others would not let me, and we would not want to. It is very important that we build up a head of steam through the international and national work that is taking place, particularly through our White Paper. We can carry that forward and translate it into real, positive action on the ground. That head of steam, or wave of enthusiasm, will not be allowed to diminish.

[Barry Gardiner]

The Minister will know that the bulk of Britain’s biodiversity is not within these islands; it is within our overseas territories. Will he give a commitment that the White Paper will include a very clear focus on the work that we need to do in those international territories? Our responsibilities for biodiversity do not stop at these shores or at the 12-mile limit; they go right across the oceans and islands of this world, because of the commitments we have in those overseas territories.

--- Later in debate ---

[Richard Benyon]

I am well aware of the importance of our overseas territories. The RSPB and others are campaigning hard. Work is being done in places such as Tristan da Cunha and other islands, some of which the hon. Gentleman referred to. I am not entirely certain how that matter will be structured within the White Paper on the natural environment, but I will certainly take his thoughts back to the team. We are conscious of the importance of our responsibilities beyond, as he says, the 12-mile limit.

I hope that the hon. Member for Ogmore thinks that we are continuing the good work that he was doing on common fisheries policy reform. The difference this time around is that we are pushing at an open door with the Commission. Local control is what is needed. We need an ecosystem basis for assessing the matter in the round. It is absolutely vital that there is marine planning, which we are undertaking at the moment, and that a holistic view of our marine environment is taken. There needs to be an end to silo thinking—whether that is by species, geography or sectoral interest. Such an approach has to go; it is in the past. He is right: there are some good people in the Department working on this. We, too, will be working with the devolved Governments to ensure such an approach.

As the hon. Gentleman said, there are global management responsibilities when it comes to fishing. I am keen to support the pan-African agreement on fisheries and to support communities because, as we were discussing, if we allow their fisheries to collapse, we will all feel the impact. If we were to encourage aquaculture that did not take a sustainable approach, we could be diminishing tilapia stocks in other countries, which could have a disastrous effect on their economies. That is just one example.

The hon. Gentleman mentioned uplands. I have already said that of course we value uplands as precious habitats. We understand the importance of schemes that have supported them in the past and that will do so in the future. On the Campaign for the Farmed Environment, the previous Government made the right decision to take a voluntary approach. We have to ensure that we can deliver on that, as must the farmers. They are at the heart of the programme, with the National Farmers Union and other landowning interests, such as the Country Land and Business Association. We will work closely with them. Are we confident that we can measure those benefits? That is something I am determined will come out of the White Paper on the natural environment. I want to ensure that we have a clear way of measuring the benefits that will undoubtedly come out of the programme.

One word that I believe is important is “outcomes”. I want us to be completely driven by the need for outcomes. Enormous amounts of public money can be put into the hands of farmers and other organisations, but although they might be doing good work by creating habitats in their areas, they could be ignoring some factor, meaning that we are not fledging more farmland birds or creating more invertebrate habitats. It is so important that an outcomes approach is at the heart of our thinking.

The hon. Gentleman also mentioned non-native and invasive species. I, too, hope that the introduction of psyllids will be a success; I have read the report of a recent debate on that in the House of Lords. I know that the scientific work testing whether it is the right approach is at an advanced stage and hope that we can find a natural way to deal with harmful invasive species.

On the water framework directive, the hon. Gentleman is absolutely right that a partnership approach is the way forward. Lord Smith, from the Environment Agency, and I discussed that this morning and are taking forward a variety of ideas. River trusts are full of enthusiastic, knowledgeable and committed people, and I want to harness their enthusiasm, along with that of a range of other people who are interested in rivers, whether they are anglers, naturalists or people who want to watch otters, for example. Everyone should feel a sense of ownership of not only the narrow stream of their river, but the entire catchment. Engaging that enthusiasm when providing governance for our rivers as we implement the water framework directive will be absolutely key.

[Huw Irranca-Davies]

I agree with the gist of what the Minister is saying. I think that the first tranche of the river catchment management plans were right in their approach and ambition, although we would have liked to have seen a little more ambition. However, they were met with some caution because they did not go far enough. The previous Government would have faced the difficulty of finding out how to do even more, and the Minister now faces the challenge of doing even more—we all agree that we need to move up the scale, logarithmically, on water quality—with less. Can he say with confidence that, whatever way he cuts it, whether through partnership or whatever, the outcomes approach he talked about will be apparent, so that we deliver huge, tangible improvements over the next five to 10 years not only in water quality, but in the ecology of those river systems?

[Richard Benyon]

I am prepared to say that we can. I have dealt at great length with a variety of people and organisations over the past few months to see how we can move forward in the important direction in which the directive takes us. Whether or not we had a directive, that is a route that we would take anyway. The hon. Gentleman will know that we face judicial review over certain aspects of it, but I want to go beyond the point of lining the pockets of lawyers, and instead work with organisations, such as those taking that legal route, to ensure that we achieve what we all want: a much better ecology for our rivers. In recent years we got to grips with point source pollution, and credit for that is due to the previous Government, but the big challenge now is to deal with diffuse pollution, which is not easy.

On the illegal trade in protected species, we have carried forward the previous Government’s work in a variety of ways. We are determined that the UK should not be a hub for the activities of criminals who trade in illegal products from endangered species. Where we find that products suddenly have new value, there will be stiff action. The hon. Gentleman will have seen that we recently signed an order that seriously limits the trade in old rhino products. The mounted head of a rhino hanging on someone’s wall, which could have been shot 60 or 70 years ago, could now be of huge value in international sales, so we have banned the sale of those products unless an extremely good case can be made for it leaving the country. There is much evidence to prove that such products are being used in the illegal medicines trade, as is the case for ivory.

I recently met the secretary-general of CITES—the convention on international trade in endangered species—who was very supportive of our national wildlife crime unit’s enforcement work. He gave me an indication of the international nature of the trade and how it is important to work in partnerships, and the European Union is important in that regard. I can assure the hon. Gentleman that we are no less determined. I hope to go out with the national wildlife crime unit and to assist it in feeling a collar or two in the near future.

The hon. Gentleman asked what units of measurement will be used. Those will be developed, and there will be no secret in our processes for doing so. If he or others want to contribute to how we do that, they will be welcome. We will be building on the work of Pavan Sukhdev and TEEB and developing that through the White Paper. Hopefully, by next spring the hon. Gentleman will have an indication of how we can do that. The benefit is that we can start to develop concepts such as conservation credits, which could have a huge benefit in preventing biodiversity loss.

The hon. Gentleman also asked about the place of climate change and biodiversity on the international agenda. Next week I will attend the OSPAR convention, and climate change and biodiversity will be at the centre of what we will say when working with partners in that forum and in the EU. I hope that I have indicated today that we will push those ideas forward next week in New York, next month in Nagoya and in any international environment we can.

[Huw Irranca-Davies]

One of the big-picture issues that the Minister has not fully addressed is where to go from here, in terms of the mechanisms of government. Perhaps I could offer a practical way forward, if he would agree to meet me, along with my hon. Friend the Member for Brent North (Barry Gardiner), who has experience of the matter, and perhaps the hon. Member for Richmond Park (Zac Goldsmith). I appreciate that that is at Secretary-of-State level, but it would be good to have the opportunity to push the boat out a little further. I am sure that that is not going to come through in its entirety in the White Paper, but it is something that we should be doing over the next couple of years, and we have to start that process.

[Richard Benyon]

I am grateful for that offer. I will certainly talk with anyone about that, particularly those who have had experience in government. We are still relative newcomers at looking at the machinery of government from the inside, so any assistance that the hon. Gentleman or others can give would be much appreciated. I sense that there is a determination and a real interest at the top of the Government to try to take those ideas forward, so we will work together on that.

The loss of biodiversity, the degradation of the environment and ecosystems, and the need to adapt to and mitigate climate change are the global challenges of our age. International agreement on the successor to the 2010 biodiversity target must be secured. The existing target has galvanised action across the world by Governments and NGOs to tackle the most urgent problems. We cannot afford to lose momentum and must all redouble our efforts to achieve success under a new target.

Question put and agreed to.