Modern Slavery Bill

Debate between Lord Bates and Lord Tunnicliffe

Monday 17th November 2014 Lords Chamber

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Home Office (Lord Bates) (Con)]

My Lords, this has been an outstanding debate to be part of and to listen to. There have been 31 excellent contributions and it is absolutely right that, before I move on, I should mention three in particular—the maiden speeches. The noble Lord, Lord Cashman, spoke of this place, having just arrived, as being public life at its best. Many of us who have been here a little longer will understand and respect that. We welcome very much his journey from the East End to the West End and hope that he is as effective and successful here. My noble friend Lady Chisholm spoke of her personal experiences in this area, from her life as a nurse and from her time dealing with those with drug and alcohol issues. Again, I think that that experience will be helpful. My noble friend Lady Mobarik brings great expertise from the world of business, which will be crucial as we get into the area of the supply chain.

I have the easy task of summing up 31 speeches, to which I have—and I counted—42 pages of notes from the Box, in not more than 15 or 20 minutes. I say at the outset that it is an impossible task. I know that many noble Lords on the other side, who have stood where I have, realise that. However, I think that, following the debate, we should perhaps respond with a substantial letter, copied to all Members. That can be a basis, as we go into Committee, for examining the many issues in much greater detail.

I recognise the passion that noble Lords have brought to the debate. Many who took part spoke from personal experience, whether it was the noble Baroness, Lady Cox, speaking with international experience of freeing people from slavery in Sudan, the right reverend Prelate the Bishop of Derby, talking about his experiences in his diocese, or the noble Baroness, Lady Doocey, and my noble friend Lord McColl, with their experiences in this area.

Responding to my noble friend Lord McColl gives me the opportunity again, like the noble Lord, Lord Rosser, to pay tribute to the excellent work undertaken by the pre-legislative scrutiny committee. Often we complain about systems and processes for examining legislation in this place. I think that this might be one case where it is not complete yet but is heading in the right direction. As well as the pre-legislative scrutiny and a draft Bill, there was, as the noble Earl, Lord Sandwich, mentioned, the consideration by the Joint Committee on Human Rights, which also looked at the Bill. One of the comments that more or less summed up where we were on this was made by the noble Baroness, Lady Young of Hornsey. She began her remarks by saying that she hoped that I and the noble Baroness, Lady Garden of Frognal, who is with me on the Front Bench, would be gratified by the warm reception that the legislation had received. She then proceeded over the subsequent seven minutes to tell me all the things that needed to be added to it to make it acceptable. We can all see the gaps, but it will be a long process.

I was grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Rosser, for pointing out in his winding-up speech that this is not something that we have just alighted on. It has been a long-standing problem tackled by successive Governments. As the noble Baroness, Lady Goudie, pointed out, it will have to be revisited in future. The reason for that is interesting. I had occasion to visit the National Crime Agency’s human trafficking unit to receive a report from it. It is mind-blowing to think that the things that it was telling me about are going on in this country. If it had told me that these things were going on in Sudan or North Korea, which the noble Lord, Lord Alton, mentioned, I might have believed it, but they are going on in this country.

That was why it was so important that the Centre for Social Justice, referred to by my noble friend Lady Newlove, entitled its 2013 report It Happens Here. We need humility. We tend to look around the world to point out the gaps where other people are falling short, so removing the plank from our own eye is a good place to start. One reason driving that, according to the report’s analysis, was that our action against the drug trade and the movement of weapons, guns and contraband was so successful in closing those activities down that organised crime gangs were now switching to another commodity—trafficking human beings and exploiting them. That is horrific and certainly deserves the increased sentences that we propose.

I turn to some particular issues. Given the work that my noble friend Lady Newlove does across government as Victims’ Commissioner, it is important that victims are at the heart of this. She and the newly appointed commissioner should address it and make recommendations.

My noble friend Lord McColl and many other noble Lords referred to child trafficking advocates and the importance of including them in the Bill. A number of references were made to how Northern Ireland had spelt out the responsibilities and that that was a better way forward. Of course we will look at what Northern Ireland has done, but we have taken a slightly different approach. We have simply said that we will undertake trials across 23 local authority areas, working with Barnardo’s, which will have child trafficking advocates who will speak up for the children. We will learn from that and on that basis set out in regulations what those responsibilities should be. That is exactly the same as what has happened in Northern Ireland, except that there it has happened in primary rather than secondary legislation. We feel that it is more suitable to have those responsibilities, which may be subject to change over time, dealt with in regulations rather than in the Bill.

I absolutely accept the chiding of my noble friend Lady Hanham when she said that it was critical that the evaluation of this exercise should happen promptly and that we should not waste any time. Of course that is our intention. As the Bill progresses, we will come forward with some of our early thoughts about the timing of when all that will happen.

There was reference to the national referral mechanism, which was introduced by the previous Government in 2009. It is worth putting a couple of figures on the record. In 2009, there were 535 referrals on to the national referral mechanism. Last year, that had increased to 1,746. My noble friend Lady Hamwee was on to something when she talked about the importance of raising awareness about this issue. Sadly, too few people are aware that this is something that is happening right here.

That is the role of the new commissioner. The new commissioner has very much to engage with these forces, with local authorities, to ensure that those referrals happen and that prosecutions are brought. I very much subscribe to the view of the right reverend Prelate the Bishop of Derby when he talked about people seeing themselves as “slavery safeguarding leads”—that is a very good way of describing it. However, out of the referrals that have happened so far, 42% came through the Home Office, 25% came through the police, 21% came through NGOs—reference has been made to some of those excellent NGOs—but only 9% came through local authorities, 2% through the National Crime Agency and 1% through the Gangmasters Licensing Authority. There is progress, but attention needs to be drawn to this issue. The role of the commissioner is very much to ensure that those numbers increase and that the number of prosecutions increases. He has to report to Parliament each year and parliamentarians will have an opportunity to give their views on his progress.

There were comments from several Members on the period for reflection—about what the figure was, whether 45 days was too short and whether it should be 90 days, as was suggested. The Council of Europe convention which provides for this said that it should be 30 days. We have said here that it should be a minimum of 45 days. That is not a maximum: in fact it will go on longer than that in many cases. There is no maximum time for this but I reassure noble Lords that that element is there. However, again, we will come back to it and look at the appropriateness of it, and of course we will get feedback on it—a lot, crucially, from the child trafficking advocates. When they have undertaken their work they will be able to offer us some feedback about it.

Several Members—I think it was the noble Baroness, Lady Howe, who focused on this—spoke about the fine balance: whether it was a criminal justice measure or something aimed at victims. The answer has to be that it is both. The crucial element we are after here is to disrupt and prevent the organised gangs which are undertaking this work. Part of that is to do with this Bill; part of it was to do with legislation we passed in the earlier Serious Crime Bill, which has now gone down to the other place with amendments. That Bill looked at tackling and restricting the work of the criminal gangs behind these activities. That is an extremely important part of it.

Several Members also referred to the supply chain. I have already referred to the noble Baroness, Lady Mobarik, but of course the noble Baroness, Lady Kennedy of Cradley, led that excellent debate on 30 October which to we have referred. It is critical that we do this. I was mindful, when she was talking about it, that I myself had had some experience of dealing with suppliers overseas. Often, if you could only get people to apply the same standards to quality of product as they do to the terms and conditions of employment of people then the problem would be solved overnight. There is no question that people here demand the highest standards of quality—they do not flinch from that for one second, because reputations depend on it. We want them to take the same approach when considering the quality and the terms and conditions which they are applying.

I cannot remember exactly who it was but there was reference to the importance these days of brands. It may have been the namesake noble Baroness, Lady Kennedy of The Shaws, so I pay tribute to her work in looking at the human rights element in this and her experience in dealing with victims at first hand. Brand is absolutely mission-critical to any business. The impact of having one of those stories which, sadly, we regularly find in our newspapers—the effect of having loose practice in supply chains—can be tremendously damaging to brands. I would have thought that it would behove any director or senior management team of any company to want to protect their brand above all things. This is a key element and the more aware that the public are of it, the more that will come to the fore.

There was reference to the Gangmasters Licensing Authority, whose work was recognised by many people and which was introduced by the previous Government. It has been a success. After the horrific example referred to by the noble Lord, Lord Alton, of the deaths in Morecambe Bay of 23 Chinese nationals, the establishment of the Gangmasters Licensing Authority brought some order into a disorderly marketplace and applied some structures. One of the problems is that whenever any organisation is successful, we immediately want to broaden its remit. Before we do that, we have to be very careful that in seeking to broaden its remit into the other, vulnerable sectors that have been mentioned, we would not undermine the good work that it is doing already. At the moment, it is doing a very focused job in an excellent way and having a positive effect in the broader fight against exploitation. We want that to continue but it is something that we will keep under review. I am sure that we will come back to it in Committee and listen very carefully to the suggestions that are made.

Several noble Lords referred to the fact that there are far too few prosecutions. My noble friend Lady Hodgson asked me to confirm the paltry number of prosecutions which have been brought forward, compared to the scale of the problem of which we are aware. I think that the noble Lord, Lord Warner, also referred to our needing to do much more to increase the number of convictions. I know this is coming back to a criminal justice focus but there is no doubt that when people see regular, severe sentences being handed out which meet the scale of the crime, that will act as a deterrent effect—as has happened in other areas of organised criminal activity. To do that, it is absolutely critical that we provide more support to victims so that they feel that they can come forward and bring their concerns to the public without fearing that they will end up in the dock, when it is the criminals who have brought them here or exploited them. I think that a lot of the measures that area are broadly welcomed.

In terms of the statutory footing, I am running out of time so I will be into the territory of reaching for that letter faster than I thought. However, the international effort is really important and we are already talking about it with the Department for International Development, which I know was referred to, and the FCO, which is working to see what more can be done in tackling this, as well as the National Crime Agency, which is working overseas as well.

I should probably be drawing my remarks to a close there. Again, I apologise to your Lordships for not being able to address all the points which have been made. I hope that we have provided some reassurance that, in the words of the noble Lord, Lord Rosser, we are no longer walking by on the other side and closing our eyes to this problem. I look forward to debating all these issues and more in Committee and I am sure that they will be debated in the informed, constructive and engaged spirit that has made tonight such an impressive occasion. At the heart of our further deliberations on the Bill should be the victim. I have no doubt that the true mark of the success of the Bill, and our continued fight against modern slavery, will be fewer victims whose lives are blighted by modern slavery.

[Lord Tunnicliffe]

For the avoidance of doubt, is the Minister assuring us that he will write on all the points he has not covered and circulate that to all noble Lords who participated in the debate?

[Lord Bates]

I am very happy to give the noble Lord that assurance. Many hundreds of points have been raised, but the substantive points will certainly be covered and that will form the basis of our discussions in Committee. Fewer victims whose lives are blighted by modern slavery is what we all seek, and I commend the Bill to the House.

Bill read a second time and committed to a Committee of the Whole House.

Finance Bill

Debate between Lord Bates and Lord Tunnicliffe

Monday 26th July 2010 Lords Chamber

[Lord Tunnicliffe]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for setting out in such detail the Bill and what it will do. I was tempted for a few moments to think that it would be exciting to go through all this detail and slog it out, clause by clause, in Committee, but I was reminded that it is a money Bill. As such, this afternoon is a formality. Nevertheless, it is an occasion when this House can debate the generality of the Budget. I will stick to that generality, rather than go into much detail.

The objective of the Budget should be to set a fiscal framework for the enhancement of the material well-being of the British people. That is how it should be judged. Does the Budget contribute to the expansion of the production of goods and services that define national well-being? Mr Geoffrey Dicks of the Office for Budget Responsibility told the Treasury Committee in another place that, “logically the chances of” a double-dip recession “have increased” as a result of the Budget. I think Mr Dicks is right, which raises another important question: why is the coalition proposing measures that most objective observers believe will harm the well-being of the British people? To answer that question we need to examine the coalition’s analysis of the crisis and its own justification for its destructive policies. Consider, for example, Mr Cameron’s statement:

“Nothing illustrates better the total irresponsibility of the last Government’s approach than the fact that they kept on ratcheting up unaffordable … spending even when the economy was shrinking”.

Thank goodness the Labour Government did ratchet up spending in the face of the worst financial crisis in 80 years. That is what saved us from entering the terrible recession that would have been our fate if the coalition had been in charge. Indeed, the coalition may take us there. Even now, government expenditure is vital to the maintenance of the fragile recovery.

In the face of the fact that government expenditure is necessary, Mr Cameron still argues that spending is unaffordable. The Budget and the Finance Bill herald massive cuts in the public sector. In his Budget speech, Mr Osborne said:

“What we have not inherited from our predecessors is a credible plan to reduce their record deficit”.—[Official Report, Commons, 22/6/10; col. 166.]

Contrast that with the report by the Office for Budget Responsibility, which demonstrates that the Budget put forward by Alistair Darling would have halved the deficit in four years, exactly the timeframe recommended by the G20 at its meeting in Toronto last month.

Consider also Mr Osborne’s statement that the crisis in the eurozone shows that unless we deal with our debts, there will be no growth. Contrast that with the fact that the UK has the lowest debt to GDP ratio of any major EU economy, that the average maturity of British government debts at 14 years is significantly more than double that of any eurozone economy and that the cost of government borrowing in Britain has been falling all this year. There is no comparison. Mr Osborne said:

“Because the structural deficit is worse than we were told, my Budget today implies further reductions in departmental spending of £17 billion by 2014-15”.—[Official Report, Commons, 22/6/2010; col. 171.]

Note that the Chancellor refers to the structural deficit, not the actual deficit. The structural deficit is a theoretical construct that relies heavily on contentious assumptions. The OBR clearly states that the actual deficit is less than Alistair Darling estimated in March, and the rate of growth of the economy is slightly higher—a fact borne out by second-quarter figures. In other words, the overall economic position is better than my right honourable friend estimated, not worse.

To sum up, it is not true that the overall fiscal position is worse than that presented by Alistair Darling in March. It is not true that the overall economic standing of the UK is comparable with that of major eurozone countries, let alone Greece and Spain. It is not true that the Labour Government had no plan to deal with the deficit. Of course, we have serious economic problems in this country; how could we not when we have just gone through the worst world recession for 80 years and when we have suffered massive convulsions in the financial sector? However, it is our contention that the massive cuts in public expenditure trailed in the Budget will make the situation worse.

There is one crucial question that the Government must face: with the withdrawal of public sector demand planned by the Government, where is the demand in the economy going to come from? The OBR seeks to answer this in the Red Book. It sees only 1.1 per cent coming from private consumption, compared with 1.9 per cent in the boom years. Even 1.1 per cent is likely to be generous as unemployment increases and real pay is cut. Instead, the OBR forecasts that growing business investment will make a positive contribution of 1.1 per cent to the growth of GDP—three times greater than in the boom years—investment in housing will contribute twice as much as in the boom years and the contribution of net trade will be 1.1 per cent, when it was negative in the boom years.

These heroic assumptions are difficult to believe. Of course, the Liberal Democrats will believe them—they have to to keep the coalition together—but do the Tories really think that they are credible, or are they just a cover for the old-fashioned slash-and-burn politics with which they are so comfortable? Their goal is not simply to cut the deficit—Alistair Darling’s proposals did that—but to shrink the public sector, whether it be education, transport or, of course, support for the poor. The Tories want less public sector to make way for tax cuts to come.

One specific measure in this Bill on which I wish to comment is the broken promise on VAT. The Budget announced that VAT would rise from 17.5 per cent to 20 per cent in January 2011. This will cost each household in the country more than £500. Labour rejected a VAT increase as part of our deficit reduction plan and chose to increase national insurance contributions instead.

[Lord Bates]

My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Lord for giving way, but on that point is he familiar with the comments made by Alistair Darling on the “Andrew Marr Show” on Sunday, when he said that he favoured increasing VAT and not increasing national insurance contributions? Does the noble Lord agree with him?

[Lord Tunnicliffe]

My Lords, regrettably, I did not watch the “Andrew Marr Show” and did not hear Alistair Darling’s precise words. Therefore, I will not comment on them.

Before the election, the Liberal Democrats warned that the Conservatives would raise VAT. Nick Clegg said, “Our plans do not require a rise in VAT, the Tory plans do. Their tax promises on marriage and jobs may sound appealing, but they come with a secret VAT bombshell”. In fact, their election campaign was based on it. During the campaign, the Conservatives repeatedly denied they had plans to raise VAT.

“We have no plans to increase VAT”,

said George Osborne in the Times on 10 April 2010. VAT rises are unfair and regressive, as both David Cameron and Nick Clegg know. David Cameron has made an absolute promise that VAT is regressive and hits the poorest hardest. Nick Clegg shares this view that raising VAT would be regressive and penalise the poor.

I touch upon an area that is difficult given our Budget and expenditure structure. I commend the Government and the OBR for the comprehensive analysis in both the Red Book and subsequent documents that have been released, although some of it is based on assumptions I do not find particularly credible. However, this Budget will change the shape of our society, and we will not see that change until the spending review in the autumn, although we can be sure that it will be significant. The Budget anticipates £83 billion less public expenditure in 2014-15, which is more than £1,000 for every man, woman and child. Some of this will come from efficiency, as Alistair Darling’s Budget assumed. Some will be payments by cash transfer, and they are analysed in the Budget documentation. Yet a most important part will come from the non-cash value that we as citizens get out of society. That is what is so weak about the Budget process; the value that is withdrawn by these non-cash items is undoubtedly regressive.

The non-cash items pay for education—everything from Home-Start to universities and research. Cuts in these areas will hit poor people who have to go through state education and use things such as Home-Start. They will come from policing and justice. Yes, some efficiency will be available, but there will also be less policing and fewer justice facilities. They will come from social services such as home helps and respite care—the things that support lonely older and poorer people. They will come from programmes to protect the environment and from the arts, culture and sport. They will come from transport, which needs revenue support to maintain services to all our citizens and specialist support for the bus pass scheme so valued by our older citizens.

This Budget and its consequences in spending cuts will make our nation less secure. It will hit the poor and weakest most. It will leave society as a whole poorer and more fractured. It will leave it a less happy society, attacking those things that cause society to be at peace with itself. History tells us that, once the Tories start cutting, they will not stop. Sadly, these damaging measures may not achieve the Tories’ ultimate goal of tax cuts for the better-off because that depends on an economic recovery. This Budget and Finance Bill make recovery less likely. Without sustained recovery, no significant group of citizens in the country can achieve significant improvement in their material well-being. That is how this Finance Bill should be judged.