Industrial Training Levy (Engineering Construction Industry Training Board) Order 2020

Lord Bates Excerpts

Wednesday 2nd September 2020 Grand Committee

[Lord Addington (LD)]

My Lords, when we look at something that deals with training across such a wide field, the obvious question that comes to mind is: how have the groups the Government are supporting been set? We need a bit more of an idea about the exact criteria for where you get the support from. That would help us in future.

Also, if you are going across these sectors, when will we decide how to encourage the necessary people in? The noble Baroness has already expanded my knowledge of this slightly by suggesting that we interact with both apprenticeships and graduates. There cannot be many other bodies doing that degree of consultation and trying to bring people into the construction sector. It is quite reassuring to hear that, and to hear that we are not only training people but encouraging them to work in the field and telling them how to access training.

Another steady subject of mine when it comes to these issues is, what about people with special educational needs or other disabilities? How are we encouraging them to get involved? The range of skills that has been suggested here is mind-blowing, going from the most basic forms of apprenticeship to postgraduate qualification and bringing them together. Presumably, that includes people training in colleges. A huge number of people can take on the training, provided they get over the initial hurdle.

I declare my interest—I did not do so earlier—as the president of the British Dyslexia Association, as someone who is dyslexic and as someone who uses technology to enable them to write more easily; I certainly use it all the time. How are we working these things to make sure that we get the right people through? We have a skills shortage in these places. What is the current outreach capacity? There are other groups that you will want to look at, but are you looking at the people who have a problem not with the initiation or even considering it but with taking the exam?

Here, a wide-ranging body has a very good opportunity to set an example by saying, “This is what you can do practically to go on and do this, using the flexibility of examination boards and institutions.” We often have a problem with one small aspect of this training: the English language. I remember somebody in apprenticeships training saying, “Oh, don’t worry about that, I wouldn’t pass the English language test”—and they were doing the training. There are certain arbitrary barriers. What are we doing to make sure that we get the right people into these positions? Here, the levy is supporting an organisation that is perfectly placed to undertake some of this work. It would be interesting to know whether this is being considered.

[The Deputy Chairman of Committees (Lord Bates) (Con)]

I now call the next speaker, the noble Lord, Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth.

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth (Con) [V]]

[Inaudible.]

[The Deputy Chairman of Committees (Lord Bates) (Con)]

Can you unmute, Lord Bourne?

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth (Con) [V]]

I think that is it. I apologise; I thought I was going to be unmuted.

My Lords, I first thank the Minister for setting out the background of the draft industrial training levy order. I am certainly not, in principle, against employers contributing via a levy, but I have several concerns about the background to the order.

The first matter that strikes me is that this really seems to come from a different, pre-Covid world. For example, the consultation exercise was carried out by the Engineering Construction Industry Training Board between July and October last year. The situation facing the country and industry now is massively and dauntingly different from then.

The questions I wish to ask are not on the micro-aspects of the order itself but on what I believe is the massive leap of imagination needed by the Government, and awesome extension of ambition, in relation to apprenticeships in general. We face a position now where many apprentices have not, for understandable reasons, been getting the work experience that they normally would have received and which they, and we, expected. Many people have of course been furloughed, and many more, alas, will lose their jobs. Against this background, we really need to address the situation we are facing in relation to apprenticeships, rather than looking at a bit of a mouse of a measure of what is really needed.

I believe that we need an apprenticeship guarantee scheme. This has been echoed in the other place by Robert Halfon, the chair of the Education Committee and the right honourable Member for Harlow. The Prime Minister has committed to look at this; he has said that this is something we should be doing, and I agree. I would like to hear from the Minister how far down this road we now are, because that was said in June. What progress are we making on this?

As a nation, we had made some progress on apprenticeships over the last few years, though that had stalled a little bit, even pre-Covid. We need to ensure that we do something for some of the disadvantaged youngsters who will fall behind because of the education stutters—rather more than stutters, to be honest—that we have experienced. What are we doing in relation to that? That has got to be done against the backdrop of an apprenticeship guarantee scheme, to help the people who will suffer because of the economic consequences of the pandemic. The Chancellor has moved very nimbly on the furlough scheme, but we need to address the education gap and the apprenticeship problems that we face.

The apprenticeship scheme will need to be backed up with infrastructure projects—particularly green projects—on a nationwide basis, to give support to the apprenticeships guarantee that we would bring in. I am sure that the noble Lord, Lord Hain, will have something to say on this in relation to, for example, the Severn barrage tidal lagoon project. These are the things which will be needed to provide training for our youngsters for the future, so that we can address our productivity gap and some of the real problems and challenges that we face. This will certainly involve the public sector playing its part. Some rebalancing of the levy may be needed to ensure that we are getting the appropriate help for the more disadvantaged youngsters who have suffered; they really will suffer through this crisis if we do not make some real efforts to address these problems.

These are the issues I wish to raise against the backdrop of the order. As I say, I have no particular problem with the order, but it does not begin to address the scale of the problem that we have, as I am sure the Minister will acknowledge. I will not be opposing the order, but I certainly think we need to come up with some bolder solutions. It would be good to hear from the Minister how she sees that going forward.

[The Deputy Chairman of Committees (Lord Bates) (Con)]

Before calling the next speaker, the noble Lord, Lord Hain, I would like to clarify that all speakers will have seven minutes, not six minutes as was indicated earlier, apart from the Minister, who will have 10 minutes at the end. I now call the noble Lord, Lord Hain.

--- Later in debate ---

Motion agreed.

[The Deputy Chairman of Committees (Lord Bates) (Con)]

I remind Members to sanitise their desks and chairs before leaving the Room. The Committee stands adjourned until 3.45 pm.