Passenger Railway Services (Public Ownership) Bill

Debate between Lord Balfe and Baroness Jones of Moulsecoomb

2nd reading
Monday 7th October 2024 Lords Chamber

[Lord Balfe (Con)]

My Lords, I also congratulate the noble Lord, Lord Grayling, who is not here, the noble Baroness, Lady Pidgeon, who is, and the noble Lord, Lord Cryer, who still has to speak to us—I am sure I can congratulate him on his speech, although I have not heard it. The noble Baroness, Lady Jones, said that the noble Baroness, Lady Pidgeon, did not take any—oh, whatever it is.

[Baroness Jones of Moulsecoomb (GP)]

Prisoners.

[Lord Balfe (Con)]

Maybe the noble Baroness, Lady Jones, does not take prisoners either, but she always does it with a great degree of humour, and we are pleased to hear her speak. I remind Members of my presidency of BALPA, the pilots’ union, which is not exactly a rail union but is in the transport sector.

I will carry on from where the noble Lord, Lord Browne, finished, because Winston Churchill not only supported nationalisation in 1919 but, when he came back into office in 1950, did nothing to undo the actions of the Attlee Government. In fact, he specifically said to Walter Monckton, who was his Minister of Labour, that he must not upset the rail unions; so, Churchill, to an extent, was fairly consistent.

The noble Baroness, Lady Blake, said that we had had three decades of failure; I point out that half of them were under the Labour Government, but we will pass over that and look forward. I do not agree that it has all been failure. I fully support the manifesto commitment, and I am not going to vote against it or anything. However, I have lived those last three decades in the city of Cambridge, and I have observed that we have a new railway station, with another one half built. We have three separate train lines, one running to King’s Cross, one running to St Pancras and one to Liverpool Street, and thanks to the way the franchises have been distributed we have never been without trains, because if one goes on strike the other goes to work. Also, of course, the number of passengers has gone up tremendously. I admit there are downsides to all this but let us not think that it is been a complete mistake, because it has not.

I would like to ask about, and draw a line under, the future of investment in rail when we move forward from where we are, because the history of rail and road investment has, as the noble Lord, Lord Young, said, been one of constant Treasury interference and investment decisions being based not on what is needed for the service but on how you split up a pie between defence, health, education, infrastructure, transport, et cetera. That is not a way, as they say, to run a railway. I hope that we can get round to some better system of allocating capital expenditure. I know this because in my part of the world we had years of campaigning by Members of Parliament from different parties for the widening of the A14 road. It did not come up against any transport needs; it kept on coming up against the Government’s capital allocations. When we look at the transport and railway needs going forward, we need to look carefully at this.

The final set of points I want to make are about this legislation. It was very clearly in the manifesto. I say to people on my own side: do not keep bringing the unions into it. The fact that there were long-standing disputes, particularly with ASLEF, was a sign that Conservative Ministers did not manage to solve them, as much as anything else. Just as a hobby, because I am a rather sad person, I printed out all the donations that were received by the various parties. Apart from the fact that the Conservative Party had £44 million, against the Labour Party getting only £34 million, with the Liberals getting just under £10 million, individuals contributed £20 million to the Labour Party’s donations; trade unions contributed £7.3 million. Of the individuals, one lady, Mrs Anna Lisbet Rausing, gave the Labour Party around £1 million.

I do not deny her that pleasure, but the railway unions gave the Labour Party £143,000. That is the clothing allowance of the Cabinet. Let us be realistic about this. The unions certainly have influence in the Labour Party—partly because our party does not treat them very well—but they certainly do not buy the party. I can speak from having been in the Labour Party as well as the Conservative Party. On this, I say, “Do come off it”. The fact of the matter is that there has been tremendous demand for change in how the railways are run; that has been present for probably the last 10 years.

What we have here is the beginning of a new era. Not everything is right; I certainly want to see some serious consideration given to the way in which capital investment will be put out. I would also like to know how the Minister and the unions will relate to each other. If there is not going to be a pay body, how will they go forward? The Minister is not going to sit in the office and say, “What shall we do today? Let’s listen to the unions’ pay demand”. There must be some sort of structure and body to look at how the pay awards are given, as there has been up to now. I would like to know how we are proposing to go ahead in the future with that very difficult area.

Finally, if a train driver earns £60,000 or £70,000 a year, they are doing a highly skilled job that requires training. They are driving a train that costs millions and which is full of lives that could be lost if they make a mistake. They are well worth the money. I have always resented the fact that there is a certain middle-class thing where, if you do not have a pen and a piece of paper and sit at a desk, you somehow are not worth a decent salary. That is rubbish. Most of the railwaymen I know work hard for the money they get and deserve every penny of it. We should remember that. I am not saying that we over-reward them, but we should not get jealous and tied up because we give hard-working people decent salaries.