Economy: Prosperity of Towns
Debate between Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon and Lord Teverson(9 years, 10 months ago)
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Lord Teverson (LD)
My Lords, what mechanisms do the Government have to allow non-metropolitan local authorities that want to move ahead and work with neighbouring local authorities cost-effectively to move towards greater devolution? Is a channel for them to achieve that open now?
Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon
The essence behind local growth funds is exactly as my noble friend says. It is about empowering people at a local level: local enterprise partnerships, local councils and local businesses coming together to bid for local funds. Demonstrably, the 39 deals agreed thus far—and the new deals that we will be announcing—will reflect exactly what my noble friend seeks to achieve, which is local communities working together to achieve growth and jobs for their local area.
Infrastructure Bill [HL]
Debate between Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon and Lord Teverson
Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon
My Lords, first, I take this opportunity to thank all noble Lords for their kind and warm words of welcome. I assure them that I look forward to working with Members from all sides in my new role. There will be times when I am sure that we will agree; there may be other times when we do not; but all discussions will be done in a manner of listening to and acknowledging the great expertise in this field in your Lordships’ House. On this subject, I have sensed that there is a good consensus on the approach of providing off-site carbon abatement measures, but of course a series of important points have been raised. I shall deal with those in responding to the amendments.
Before doing so, I shall deal with the specific issue raised by my noble friend Lord Teverson on the climate change committee’s recommendations on low-carbon heating, such as heat pumps. Rather than specifying what heating to use, the standards in building regulations are technology neutral, giving builders the flexibility to innovate and choose the most practical and cost-effective heating solutions. As we further strengthen standards, builders will increasingly find that they need to include low-carbon solutions such as heat pumps. Of course, heat pumps work best in well insulated homes, and we have already amended building regulations to require that all new homes are well insulated. There is no reason why low-carbon heating such as heat pumps could not be considered as part of the allowable solutions investment to meet the overall zero-carbon standard.
Lord Teverson
I thank the Minister for that comment; that is very useful. I point out one thing to him, which I am sure he is aware of: he is absolutely right about heat pumps and all that, but we know that it is really important to put them in when the house is built. It is difficult to do it retrospectively. Yet the biggest incentive for that is the renewable heat initiative, to which new builds are not entitled. Therefore, I ask the Minister to take away to his colleagues the fact that there is a distortion. The renewable heat initiative is fantastic and a great success but it acts as a barrier to things that need to be done on new builds. It is almost more of a problem to do these things retrospectively. It clearly makes sense to do them beforehand, but the renewable heat initiative can have a distorting effect in this area. However, I very much welcome the Minister’s comments on that approach.
Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon
I thank my noble friend for his suggestion and I agree with the principle of what he is saying. Quite often when homes are built, we look to put in heating which reflects the direction of travel that we aim to achieve on carbon from homes, and it is inherently sensible that it is done at the time of construction rather than trying to do it through reconstruction. If nothing else, one hesitates on the carbon emissions which are then created through the reconstruction or part reconstruction of properties.
Amendments 93ZAAA and 93AA seek to determine the scope of the exemption that we have proposed for small sites from the requirements to deliver zero-carbon homes from 2016. My noble friend Lord Jenkin and the noble Lords, Lord Best and Lord McKenzie, all mentioned the importance of helping small housebuilders. As we recognise, small housebuilders do not have the resources of larger housebuilders to respond to new regulations. However, it is important that we design an effective exemption. I assure my noble friend Lord Jenkin that we are committed to a consultation on this very issue and we expect that it will be issued shortly.
It would be wrong to nail down the scope of the exemption in primary legislation before we have had a chance to consider the evidence. On that very issue, noble Lords will be interested to know that the Federation of Master Builders has issued a briefing note with its views on the exemption. The FMB represents all small and medium-sized construction firms, as noble Lords know, and it is very supportive of the proposed exemption. I use that only as an illustration of the need to consult. There will be many views that we must listen to from all sides of the debate.
We want to ensure that the exemption is proportionate and targeted to help small builders, that there are clear criteria as to its application and that it is designed to ensure that it helps only those that it is meant to help. I reassure noble Lords that the key questions about site size will sit at the heart of the consultation.
Lord Teverson
I congratulate the Minister on the depth of his reply, given the short notice that he had of this debate. It was a very useful analysis of everything. House rules now allow us to use our iPads; I can see that the Minister has an impressive track record in this area in local government. This has been an excellent debate.
I thank noble Lords for their contributions on the small developments amendment. My explanation was inadequate in comparison with that of the noble Lord, Lord Best, which highlighted exactly the potential gaining there can be in splitting up developments. I am reassured by the Minister on that area. Clearly the Government are determined that such attempts to reduce the individual tranches of development will not be used.
Like my noble friend Lord Jenkin, I read the authoritative report from the Federation of Master Builders. It struck me as a denigration of its own profession, saying that smaller builders are not able to do this. I find that hugely disappointing. My experience, like that of the noble Lord, Lord Best, is the opposite. Smaller builders are far more able to provide consistent quality and to use local subcontractors for specialist functions, which these energy and emission-savings regulations would require. Rural communities are nearly always small but are also challenged on energy bills because they do not have access to gas. I am in that situation. I do not plead fuel poverty, but many people in my neighbourhood would because we have no access to gas and have to rely on oil, which I use, or bottled gas, if people are really well off. I cannot afford that luxury. It is a real issue. I ask the Minister and the Government to think again about this exemption.
I accept the Minister’s criticism that the very specific five-mile radius is perhaps not appropriate. I think we all agree that it would be preferable if alternative allowable solutions were implemented locally so that local communities and people in the houses concerned would see some of the benefits. I understand that it will be in the interests of the developer to point out local benefits that come through. In this case, would the Government see that that could be enforced?
It would really concern me if, having got permission for a development with allowable solutions, the developer, having done the sale, decides that it is all a little too difficult. We have seen a renegotiation of affordable housing or Section 106 agreements. Then, because of what they have decided to do in a development in Reading that is controversial, say, they decide to plant a forest in Northumberland after all. That is excellent for Northumberland and great for the climate, but not what the residents of Reading were promised. Will there be a preference for local solutions and, if agreed, will they be enforceable? I ask for the Minister’s thoughts in that area.
Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon
I think I said in my response that there are two elements to this. The second element is the impact on the locality. I speak as someone who has sat on a planning committee, as have other noble Lords. I know what happens when you consider planning applications. By golly, I have bashed out quite a few Section 106 agreements, and the whole intention is one of local benefit.
First, as for local authorities setting up their own funds, that is still to be decided, but I suppose that there is an argument to be made that setting up a plethora of individual funds may involve higher overheads. On the issue of prescriptive enforcement, in all planning applications we also look to the importance of building regulations. As I have alluded to in some of the detail that I have given, we also hope that the detail will be tied in with the building regulations. It will be for local authorities to ensure that the building regulations are adhered to.
If there is any further detail beyond that, I will certainly make it available to the Committee.
Lord Teverson
I thank the Minister for that. However, the point I am making is that you can fulfil building regulations by doing something far away; whereas, in a planning permission, there is a specific agreement to do specific things. On the carbon price, going to £90 is one figure. I was trying to make such allowable solutions the last resort and ensure that other solutions—either for the building itself or locally—came first. On electricity charging points for cars, I thank the Minister for his potentially positive reaction; that is excellent.
Clearly, I will not press my amendment. The risk about the price of housing and standards is clear if we look at the automotive industry. It has constantly had regulations on carbon emissions, and there has always been a fight, fight, fight by the automotive industry against all of them. Finally, politicians—at this point, in the single market at the European level—have had the guts to say, “Right, we have had enough of negotiation; we are going to ensure that”. That has happened a number of times on emissions. Has the real price of cars ever gone up over that period? The answer is absolutely not.
The same is true in the area of renewable energy. The cost is constantly coming down. The issue is not the increased price of houses—it may be in the very short term, but I suspect that that may be reflected in the land value rather than the price of the house, because that is the big variable in value and how planning permission works. Before I withdraw my amendment, I sincerely ask the Government not to be completely taken by the argument that the whole of the private industry is centred on efficiency increases and reducing costs. It is completely able to do that; this is not the biggest cost factor; and it is much more important that the future stream of energy costs to the people who live inside—the voters, consumers and citizens—are taken equally into consideration. I think that they should be weighed much higher in the balance. I beg leave to withdraw my amendment.
Lord Teverson
My Lords, this is quite a long amendment but it is trying to do something simple, which my noble friend Lady Maddock has already talked about. It is trying to say that there is a whole set of issues around the management and control of building regulations of the sort that we are talking about here. It is difficult enough with building regulations as they are at the minute. I was in local government for a short period—for four years up until last year—and one question that we kept on coming to was whether, although we have those regulations, they are really being applied. It is great for us and the department to say that these are the right things, however high or low those standards are, but if they are not effectively applied, either through negligence or perhaps even through design, that is not very good at all. However, with what we have on allowable solutions at the moment, it is even more difficult to say whether the policy has been effectively implemented.
My last quote from the Committee on Climate Change report for 2014 on progress is probably something that noble Lords will recognise. It says:
“While the tightening of buildings regulations is important for carbon budgets, the actual delivery of carbon savings is not necessarily assured. There has been increasing evidence of a significant gap between predicted performance and in-use performance, with new buildings rarely delivering the expected savings due to a variety of factors (e.g. poor design and installation)”.
That is a very depressing paragraph for all of us, but I am afraid that we probably all experience and see that out in the real world.
With this amendment, I am trying to probe the Government on more than how we are actually going to manage the new process. I would be interested in the Minister’s comments on how effectively the Government think—dare I say?—bog-standard building regulations are implemented at the moment. What evidence do we have? What lessons can we learn? I shall certainly withdraw my amendment, but what would the Government like to bring forward so that we can rest assured that—whatever we agree and is subsequently agreed in building regulations under the Building Act—a job well done is not only when this legislation is passed but when it is implemented? I beg to move.
Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon
My Lords, I thank my noble friend for tabling the amendment. I agree that it is important that we have information on the operation of zero-carbon homes standards. As I said on Amendment 93AAA, we need to ensure that the desire for information is dealt with in a way which does not create unnecessary administration. Usefully, there is an opportunity to use existing reporting mechanisms, which will save the need for extra legislation.
In that respect, I have to point out that it would not be the role of the Planning Inspectorate to be involved in reporting for off-site carbon abatement matters, as proposed in the amendment, as those are dealt with through building control, not planning, which is the remit of the inspectorate. To ask the inspectorate to report would require the creation of new systems for it to ask for information from building control bodies, and that would create unnecessary administrative burdens.
I have already outlined the requirements in the Sustainable and Secure Buildings Act 2004 which can meet the intent of this amendment and would not need the introduction of new requirements. For the benefit of noble Lords, it would be useful to repeat what Section 6 of the Act requires. Under that section, a biennial report on the sustainability of building stock is produced and laid before Parliament. It specifies that the report must include building regulations made in the reporting period, changes in the energy and carbon efficiency of the building stock, and an estimate of the number of dwellings at the end of the reporting period. The intent and content of this existing reporting requirement under the Sustainable and Secure Buildings Act lends itself to the provision of information about zero-carbon homes, and could offer a way forward to provide the information being sought to the House and more widely.
My noble friend also asked for other information about what the Government propose. In this respect, we can augment the information already required to be produced for reports under the Sustainable and Secure Buildings Act with information available from the register for keeping track of those certificates, as proposed in our new clause. Our new clause enables building regulations to be made for the creation, maintenance and administration of a new register to keep records of certificates as evidence of compliance with building regulations when off-site allowable solutions are adopted as part of zero-carbon homes solutions.
As we develop the register, we can certainly look to see that it will enable appropriate information to be available. That would avoid the need for separate reporting requirements and additional administrative burdens and costs, of course.
In terms of enforcement and how this would work, nothing proposed removes the fundamental fact that, before buildings can be used, they have to be signed off by a building control body as meeting building regulation requirements. Therefore, a building control body need not accept a certificate provided for off-site carbon abatement measures if there is any doubt as to, for example, the provenance of certificates or the validity of the off-site carbon abatement measures to which they relate. Of course, in the last resort a local authority could prosecute someone who failed to comply with the zero-carbon standard.
My noble friend also talked specifically about the gap between design and performance. Our zero-carbon homes strategy does not stop at strengthening the building regulations alone. We want to ensure that the homes perform as we expect them to. To that end, we support a wide piece of work with the industry being led by the Zero Carbon Hub to ensure that all new homes, when built, save the amount of energy and carbon expected.
The work led by the Zero Carbon Hub is looking at closing the gap between the design and the as-built performance of new homes, and we will consider how best to take forward its recommendations. In terms of practicalities and how the register will operate, we are currently working up the detail, which will be subject of course to consultation. The key elements could operate in a similar way to the register of the energy performance of buildings—namely, that a copy of the certificate would need to be entered on to the register by the person who had produced it at the same time that it was supplied to the developer. We would of course anticipate that information about the number of certificates on the register would be available more widely, subject to appropriate data protection requirements, as is the case with the EPB register.
As for how allowable solutions will be checked, I think that my noble friend raised a question about that in respect of a previous amendment. I mentioned at that point that measures such as retrofit, which are classified as building works, will be subject to building regulations. We could also support this through a requirement to provide an updated energy certificate, while small-scale energy measures would also have to demonstrate that they met minimum energy performance levels, which would be converted into carbon savings.
My noble friend also asked about the effectiveness of building regulations enforcement. A building control survey in November 2011 showed a significant number of interventions by building control bodies. I can of course send a copy of that report to my noble friend and, indeed, share it with all noble Lords in the Committee.
Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon
When I put that report forward, I will also provide additional analysis, if it is available. I hope that my remarks and the approach that I have set out demonstrate that we can make economical use of proposed and existing registers and reporting arrangements, and avoid the burden of additional reporting requirements. On the basis of that detailed explanation and the reassurances that I have provided, I hope that my noble friend will be minded to withdraw his amendment.
Lord Teverson
My Lords, again, I thank my noble friend for going through that—quite rapidly, I would say. I will diligently read Hansard when the report is available to go through. I am sure that he shares my concern to make sure that these future regulations are delivered and enforced. I would just stress once again that, when we move into the allowable solutions area, this is not necessarily about a physical thing but something rather more difficult to check. That process needs to be checked a lot more carefully than under present conditions. On the basis that there are already procedures—I thank my noble friend for undertaking to distribute that information, which will be of great interest to the Committee more widely—I am very pleased to beg leave to withdraw my amendment.
Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon
My Lords, with that last comment the noble Lord, Lord McKenzie, has demonstrated again the independence of thinking of our coalition colleagues, at least in the House of Lords. I say nothing more.
The other thing to say is that this is the final group for today and it brings to a conclusion for this afternoon much of the Teverson/Ahmad performance, with a sprinkling of McKenzie. We have addressed several important areas and, in the explanations that I have given thus far, I hope that I have put more detail on to what the Government’s thinking is. I repeat that the important element in all this is that although we may perhaps differ on the speed, and sometimes the approach, I think that the intent and principles behind what the Government are seeking to do are supported across the House and the Committee as a whole.
Turning to the amendment, it is perhaps unusual for us to be debating here the commencement of provisions in another Bill which has not yet completed its passage through the House. However, I recognise the interest in this issue. The background to this is the changes we are making to rationalise and simplify changes to housing standards. The Government announced in March that, as far as possible, we will consolidate necessary standards into building regulations. The Planning and Energy Act, among other things, allows local authorities to set planning policies to require energy efficiency standards above those in building regulations. With the introduction of strengthened building regulations and of the zero-carbon homes standard, this has become unnecessary, so we propose in the Deregulation Bill to amend the Act to remove that provision.
The issue of when we will commence changes to the Planning and Energy Act 2008 in support of zero-carbon policy has already been discussed in the other place. At this juncture, I can perhaps do no better than to repeat what my right honourable friend the Minister for Government Policy said recently in the other place. I am happy to do so here for the benefit of the Committee. Referring to zero-carbon policy, he said:
“We are aware that within that framework, the decision on the commencement date for amendments to the Planning and Energy Act 2008, which restrict the ability of local authorities to impose their own special requirements, must be made in such a way that the ending of those abilities to set special requirements knits properly with the start of the operation of standards for zero-carbon homes and allowable solutions”.—[Official Report, Commons, 23/6/14; col. 153.]
That commitment is on the public record and I have repeated it today. It shows clearly that we are conscious of the need for a sensible transition arrangement. With the explanation that I have given, and my repeating the statement of my right honourable friend, I hope that my noble friend has the reassurance he seeks and that he will withdraw his amendment.
Lord Teverson
My Lords, I am delighted to hear that commitment by the right honourable Oliver Letwin again, representing the positive reaction of the coalition Government of the Conservative Party and the Liberal Democrats to the amendment. I am grateful, too, for the support of the noble Lord, Lord McKenzie, and his Commons colleagues. On that basis, I am pleased to withdraw the amendment.