Road Traffic Act 1988 (Alcohol Limits) (Amendment) Bill [HL]

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Friday 22nd April 2016 Lords Chamber

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Transport and Home Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)]

My Lords, I would like to thank the noble Lord, Lord Brooke—that is what my notes say—but I extend my thanks to all noble Lords who have contributed to this Bill and debate. I will be brief.

As my noble friend Lord Cormack rightly pointed out, the substance of the amendments is to seek to clarify the language of the Bill following the changes which were previously approved in Committee, as the noble Lord, Lord Brooke, mentioned. As I have previously set out, although the Government’s position remains not to support this Bill to lower the drink-drive limit, these amendments are sensible and helpful clarifications to the language of the Bill. Let me reiterate that drink-driving remains a very important issue, and although the Government have no plans to lower the drink-drive limit, we will continue to support the police in their rigorous enforcement efforts against all dangerous drivers.

To pick up on one point about Scotland, as the noble Lord will be aware, and for the benefit of all noble Lords, of course we are looking very closely at the situation there. My honourable friend Andrew Jones, the Minister with responsibility for roads, is already in contact with the Scottish Government and they will be meeting in due course. We welcome any substantial evidence from the Scottish Government, and they can provide that at any time. However, I once again reiterate that it is not the Government’s position to lower the limit. That is really all I have to say.

[Lord Forsyth of Drumlean]

Before my noble friend sits down, will he perhaps indicate whether the Government have any view on the impact of this Bill on jobs, particularly in pubs and the hospitality industry? Of course, what it would mean is that people would no longer go to the pub at all, which has been the experience in Scotland. In looking at this, will he very carefully consider that balance? As far as the safety of motorists is concerned, will his department turn its attention to the scandal of people driving under the influence of drugs and not being brought to account for it, which seems to me to be a far greater problem than people driving within the legal limit at present?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

As ever, my noble friend raises the important point about the wider economic impact. That is why the Government are considering their position in this regard—

[Lord Hughes of Woodside (Lab)]

If one follows the view put forward by the noble Lord, Lord Forsyth, we should be changing things in the other direction so that people can drink as much as they like because that would help the drinks industry. Is that what he is saying?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

I am sure I speak for my noble friend when I say categorically no. I am sure that if the noble Lord reflects on my noble friend’s remarks he will see that that is not what he was suggesting. What we are saying is that we will observe the current status quo. I have already indicated that we are talking to the Scottish Government. I was going to make a point on the issue raised by my noble friend Lord Forsyth about the wider economic challenges that a lowering of the limit poses. Of course that needs to be considered in any decision being taken. As I said, it is entirely appropriate, and I think right, that we observe what the situation in Scotland is. I should, for the sake of completeness, declare a personal interest in that I do not drink myself. Nevertheless, I understand and appreciate that the notion of someone having a small drink at lunch time is one that many people, not just in this House but beyond, quite welcome.

[Lord Berkeley (Lab)]

My Lords, if the Minister is going to look at further evidence on the effect of lowering the alcohol limit on people driving to pubs, could he look at evidence relating to people, including younger people, not drinking alcohol but still driving to pubs with other people who may drink? There is evidence that suggests that some younger people are much more responsible than older people when it comes to drinking and driving.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

As someone who during his university days was often the driver for others who were merrier in the car, I can perhaps reflect on a personal dimension. Of course, the noble Lord is quite right that we need to consider the full impact of that and to look at the evidence base as presented.

[Lord Brooke of Alverthorpe]

My Lords, I thank those who have intervened in this short debate. I am grateful to hear from the Minister that positive steps are now being taken to embark on a discussion with the Scottish Government.