European Union (Withdrawal) Act

Debate between Lisa Cameron and Ian Blackford

Tuesday 15th January 2019 Commons Chamber

[Ian Blackford (Ross, Skye and Lochaber) (SNP)]

It is always a considerable pleasure to follow the right hon. and learned Member for Rushcliffe (Mr Clarke). We live in a strange world because, as on so many occasions, I find myself pretty well agreeing with much of what he says. Of course, on many occasions, I find him in the Division Lobby with us, and I say to him with respect and friendliness that his analysis is spot on. He has demonstrated the futility of those who believe that a UK outwith the European Union could somehow quickly put together trade deals around the world. It is a fantasy; it is for the birds.

It is an absolute travesty that a binary choice between the Government’s deal and no deal is being put to the House today. That is not the case. Other options are open to the House, and the right hon. and learned Gentleman has talked about either revoking or staving off the article 50 process, which would give the House time to come to its senses, based on what we now know of the risks of Brexit.

Let us be absolutely clear that there is no such thing as a good Brexit. The Scottish Government’s analysis demonstrates that, in any Brexit scenario, the countries of Scotland, England, Northern Ireland and Wales will all be poorer than they would be under the status quo. It is the responsibility of any Government to provide security for their citizens. A Government who wish to make a proposition that imperils the employment opportunities and living standards of their citizens are abrogating their responsibility.

It is on that basis that I plead with the right hon. and learned Gentleman to vote against, or at least abstain on, the Government’s motion today, because this House, to use the often-used phrase, must take back control. We must talk to the people of the United Kingdom, however they voted, based on our knowledge of the facts. Last week Jaguar Land Rover announced that it will be making an additional 4,500 workers redundant, following the 1,500 redundancies already announced. We know the reasons for that are complex, and they include diesel cars and China, but Brexit is a significant contributory factor.

This Government stand accused of putting workers on the dole, and doing so as a function of ideology, because that is what it is. Look at the circumstances of where we are today. The Prime Minister called a general election because she thought she would come back with a thumping majority, but she came back as a minority Prime Minister. She should have seized the moment and recognised that this is a Parliament of minorities, a Parliament in which she has to reach across the House to try to achieve consensus, but she has failed to do so.

All that has happened since the 2017 general election is that we have had an internal battle in the Tory party. The Brexiteers want to drive us off a cliff, and there is no way that the Scottish National party and the people of Scotland will be sitting on that bus as the Prime Minister drives it off a cliff. There is no way that the people of Scotland will be dragged out of the European Union against their will.

[Dr Lisa Cameron (East Kilbride, Strathaven and Lesmahagow) (SNP)]

My right hon. Friend is making an excellent speech. The Government’s own analysis shows that, no matter the outcome, with Brexit we will all be poorer, but does he agree that it is the most vulnerable in society who will pay the price? I am the chair of the all-party parliamentary group on disability, and people with disabilities have been writing to me in their hundreds because they are terrified that Brexit will happen and they will be thrown into further despair.

[Ian Blackford]

My hon. Friend is correct that it is the most vulnerable in our society—those who are disabled and those who rely on our public services—who will pay the biggest price for Brexit, because there is no question but that our public services will be poorer. We know that economic growth in the United Kingdom will be reduced by Brexit. Why are we punishing people to that extent? The Government have a responsibility to be honest with people and to reflect on what happened in 2016.

An economist, Dr Samuelson, said, “When events change, I change my mind.” Why has the Prime Minister not reflected on the situation we are in? I am grateful for my hon. Friend’s intervention, and I am delighted to announce to the House that all 35 SNP Members have spoken out in this debate about the risks we see to our constituents and to our industries across Scotland. Of course, we are particularly alarmed by the issue of freedom of movement. We have benefited enormously from those who have come to work and live in our country, to add to the diversity of our communities and to make a contribution to our economic growth. EU citizens who have chosen to make their lives here are now being told that they will have to register to sustain the rights they have.

RBS Rural Branch Closures

Debate between Lisa Cameron and Ian Blackford

Monday 18th December 2017 Commons Chamber

[Ian Blackford]

I will come on to that aspect, but I must apologise that to get through my remarks, I will not take any interventions for the rest of my speech.

I received the numbers that I issued a couple of minutes ago from RBS two weeks ago. I have asked repeatedly for the relevant figures for all the branches in Scotland that are earmarked for closure. RBS has refused to release the figures. It has published figures for bank use detailing only those that use the bank every week of the year. According to RBS, only 11 customers use Mallaig on a weekly basis, 27 visit Beauly and 51 use Kyle. We know the reality. As opposed to the 51 regular customers trumpeted for Kyle, there are actually 25,000 transactions. If we focused on the so-called 51 customers, we might be sympathetic to the demands from RBS to close the bank, yet the fact that there are 25,000 transactions a year allows me to conclude that the branch is still relatively busy.

Why doesn’t RBS come clean and tell us the number of transactions in all the threatened branches? I ask the Minister to put pressure on Royal Bank of Scotland to come clean and tell us the truth about the number of transactions in all the branches in Scotland and throughout the United Kingdom. It is a disgrace that RBS has not released the full figures and I stand here asking RBS to do so publicly: do not hide behind so-called commercial confidentiality; it simply will not wash.

[Dr Lisa Cameron (East Kilbride, Strathaven and Lesmahagow) (SNP)]

Will my right hon. Friend give way?

[Ian Blackford]

One last time.

[Dr Cameron]

I have been contacted by extremely vulnerable constituents regarding the closures that are planned for Strathaven and Lesmahagow, including those with learning disabilities and disabled members of the community who find it difficult to travel or use the internet. Does my right hon. Friend not think that RBS is letting down the most vulnerable in our constituencies?

[Ian Blackford]

My hon. Friend makes a valid point. That brings me back to why I hope RBS reflects on what it has done. It has simply gone too far. Let us work together to protect the interests of our communities, and particularly the vulnerable citizens within them.

RBS has given the figures for three branches in my constituency. It should publish the others and let us see the full picture of the demand for branch banking. Let us have an honest debate. RBS needs to be transparent. I can tell RBS that people in all the affected communities are angry and want it to engage properly with them. RBS has simply not thought this through properly.

There has been no public consultation on the closure plans. Why not? Yesterday in the Sunday Mail, RBS stated:

“We are not required to consult with communities in advance.”

It went on to say:

“We find that many customers wished they had used other ways to bank earlier when they get comfortable.”

The sheer arrogance of those statements is breathtaking. Let me say clearly to RBS: customers want to use branch banking; stop spinning and treat customers with respect.

I thank the Unite union, which has been in touch with me over the past few days. I state publicly that I will work with Unite and the workforce to seek to limit job losses. Here again, RBS has to come clean. I am indebted to an RBS whistleblower who has contacted me in the light of public statements that RBS has made. It is claimed by RBS that the full-time equivalent job losses in Scotland are 165. I am informed that the actual number of workers being cut is 321. I am told UK-wide the figure is 1,446 jobs against the 685 on a full-time equivalent basis that has been published. The expected redundancies across the UK in a worst-case scenario are 971, including 97% of the 216 customer service officers in the branches affected; 86% of the 246 associate personal bankers; 84% of the 126 customer service managers; and 49% of the personal bankers. It is clear that the chances of redeployment within the RBS network will be slim for a lot of staff members.

Those figures are in a paper forwarded to me in a document about restructuring the branch network. I have told RBS I have been given details of the figures contained within the report. RBS is not only turning its backs on its customers—it is turning its back on its staff members. We are talking about valuable jobs in the rural economy. We are talking about a loss of opportunities for young people in rural economies. The leaked report goes on to say:

“Our personal banking strategy is to give our customers choice and offer outstanding service that is effortless every day and brilliant when it matters.”

I do wonder who could write such meaningless management-speak. When branches are closed, there is a withdrawal of service. Spinning to say outstanding service is being delivered is simply unacceptable. RBS has even had the gall to say customers would get a better service. How? One suggestion from RBS is to use post offices. In Munlochy on the Black Isle, RBS shut its branch. “Not to worry,” it said, “you can use the post office.” The only problem was that the post office shut six months later. Somewhere along the line, RBS has to take responsibility for its own customers and not pass the right of service on to a third party. They are RBS customers.

The intended closure of the branch in Castlebay in Barra would be funny if it was not so serious. There will be no bank on the island of Barra. It reminds me of the line from “Whisky Galore”, the Ealing comedy: “There is no whisky.” The cruelty in this case is that there will be no bank. The journalist Rita Campbell of the Press and Journal made a trip last week from Barra to the nearest bank in Lochboisdale, a journey of 62 miles, including a six-mile ferry crossing. It took seven hours and 10 minutes to reach Lochboisdale and return to Barra. How can RBS treat its customers in such a shameful way? RBS must reverse the closure of the branch in Barra and elsewhere.

We must also press the UK Government to accept their responsibilities. Collectively, we own RBS. Above all else, RBS was saved to provide banking services to our communities. We paid a heavy price to bail out RBS. There are taxpayers in every community that is threatened with the ending of banking services. Can I ask the Minister what notice the Government were given, as the majority shareholder, of the closure plans? What discussions have the Government had with RBS? Will the Government summon Ross McEwan, the chief executive officer, to the Treasury and tell RBS that in the interests of all our communities the closure plan must be stopped? It will not wash.

The Government have to accept their responsibilities as the majority shareholder. I say to the Minister: do not rise to your feet and tell us it cannot be done, it is a commercial decision and the Government cannot intervene. The Government have intervened before. When it was announced that Stephen Hester, the previous CEO, was leaving RBS, the then Chancellor George Osborne was interviewed on the “Today” programme and said the following:

“Let’s be clear, it was a decision of Stephen Hester and the board but, of course, as the person who represents the taxpayer interest, and we have got a huge stake in the Royal Bank of Scotland because the previous government put a huge amount of taxpayers’ money into it, of course my consent and approval was sought.”

Just dwell on the words:

“my consent and approval was sought.”

It was right for the Government to give their approval on a member of the management team and it is right for the Government to give their approval or not on decisions that would remove access to branch banking from many of our citizens. It is clear that the Government can act. The Government must act. A failure to halt is a failure to act in the national interest and the interest of our citizens. It would, Minister, be an abrogation of responsibility.

Yesterday, the Secretary of State for Scotland—I can see him sitting on the Front Bench, and I welcome him to the debate—was quoted in the Sunday Mail. He said:

“Branches are a lifeline for many people, especially in rural areas. RBS needs to remember its responsibilities to customers and reconsider these harmful moves.”

On this occasion, I agree with the Secretary of State, and I hope that he will join me in asking the Government to take their responsibilities seriously. If the office of Secretary of State for Scotland has any authority, this call from the Secretary of State must result in a halt being called to the plans. Does the Secretary of State for Scotland have any authority with the Treasury? Will the Minister act tonight? Call in the RBS management and put a stop to these closures.

Tonight, the Minister has it in his gift to listen to these calls and act. Stand up and be counted or, like RBS, the UK Government will be turning their back on our constituents.