Maternity Discrimination

Lisa Cameron Excerpts

Wednesday 15th March 2017 Westminster Hall

[Dr Lisa Cameron (East Kilbride, Strathaven and Lesmahagow) (SNP)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Chope. I thank the hon. Member for Washington and Sunderland West (Mrs Hodgson) for securing this important debate and thank all hon. Members for their excellent speeches.

Maternity discrimination is an extremely complex issue: it is not just about having a job to go back to after having a baby. I would like to speak briefly about my own experience. People who know me will be aware that I have two children, so I have some experience.

During one of my pregnancies, at around seven months I experienced anaemia and the GP said I could not work full days at that point. I gave that advice to my manager, but unfortunately she said, “Oh, well—you are going to have to take hours off your annual leave at the end of the day, or you are going to have to go off on your maternity leave early.” People who have been through the process of having a baby while at work will know that going off early or using annual leave means that that leave cannot be used at the other end of the maternity period, with the baby, so it puts a woman at a disadvantage straightaway. Given that my manager was a woman, I had expected a bit more empathy, and given that I worked in the NHS, I had expected that the GP’s advice would be taken on board. I was quite appalled by the situation and how it was handled.

I do not think that taking annual leave or starting maternity leave at an earlier stage is a “reasonable adjustment”, when other things could be done—my job description, for instance, meant that I could do research at home, or, as I worked as a union rep a day a week, I could have used some of the hours to do union work. So there was absolutely no necessity for me to do either of those things. Unfortunately, given the uncompromising nature of the management system that I was in, I went off on maternity leave early—I felt forced to do that—and so lost time with my baby at the other end. It would be helpful to clarify, for both women and employers, the term “reasonable adjustments”. All too often, I feel that employers use it as a way of engaging in surreptitious discrimination and getting round their obligations.

The next issue I experienced was when I was off on maternity leave. There were job and training opportunities afforded to colleagues that I was never informed about. As many employees do, I had “keeping in touch” days—it is certainly something that the NHS advocates—so there was no reason why I should not have been able to come in and take up training opportunities alongside colleagues, using those days—but I was absolutely never contacted about the opportunities.

The rationale given by the manager when I challenged that on my return was that, because we had had a conversation during my pregnancy about my wanting to spend quality time with my baby, she did not think I would want to do any of those things. I felt that was a decision I should have been able to make. Someone should not just assume, because a woman has had a baby, that they know best and do not need to contact her and give her any opportunity to inform with her own views. Again, I found that extremely unacceptable.

Will the Minister give some clarification on the three-month period? Obviously, when someone is off on maternity leave—they might be off for a whole year—some of those things can happen when they are off. Does the three-month period when a woman is able to raise a concern with the tribunal occur from when the incident that she might not have known about happened or from when she becomes aware of it? That is really important. A lot of things could happen, and until a woman returns and speaks with colleagues or finds out that people have moved to other jobs, she can have no knowledge of what opportunities there were.

[Tulip Siddiq]

What does the hon. Lady think about access to justice? Will the Minister consider abolishing some of the up-front fees, which are so high that many women who are pregnant or have just had children are put off bringing forward discrimination cases?

[Dr Cameron]

I thank the hon. Lady for those words. That is an extremely important issue, and I will come to it. I was lucky: because I was a union rep, I had my union’s support and I could afford the tribunal fees. Although my case never went to a tribunal, I have absolutely no doubt that if I had not gone down that road and had not had that support, the issue would have been swept under the carpet and not dealt with.

I have real concerns that women without such support—perhaps they are in workplaces that are not unionised—do not have adequate representation and cannot afford tribunal fees, given that a baby is expensive enough. Women are not going to prioritise tribunal fees over their baby or their family’s needs.

I had been working as a consultant in the NHS for many years, so I was not in a junior position, but when I came back to work a male colleague was given management responsibility for a new member of staff who had joined the department. They were originally to work under both of us—50% with each manager—but the management opportunity was taken away from me, although I had been a consultant for far longer than my colleague.

I did not know about the decision until the new member of staff arrived and said, “You’re not my manager. The other individual is my manager. Did no one tell you about it?” I said, “No one told me about it. I didn’t even know you were arriving today.” When women go back to work and are juggling everything, people often do not give them any choice or any information. They are not even given the courtesy of being updated about what was happening.

I felt that my managerial duties were being removed. When I challenged that decision, I was told that the rationale was that I was part-time, and that it had been decided during my maternity leave that I might not be able to deal with the managerial responsibilities. Once again, because I had come back from maternity leave and was trying to manage my family time and my job—the number of hours had been agreed—my role was demeaned, which meant that I was subservient to my male colleague. That is certainly what I felt. I was aggrieved about not being consulted about a decision that affected my job.

Shortly after I returned to work, it became apparent that very little of my patient workload had been undertaken in the year I had been off. That really concerned me, given that I had a number of patients in a forensic setting who required updated risk assessments annually. No one raised that issue with me on my return, but approximately 70% of the patients whose risk assessments I had been involved in doing prior to going on maternity leave had not had any updates during that time. I had to contact my professional body and take advice about clinical risk, and then I had to raise that issue with management. That is difficult, particularly for individuals who work in the NHS, because whistleblowing is not easy. People do not want to find themselves in that situation, particularly if they have come back from maternity leave. However, we have to take our professional and clinical duties extremely seriously, and that is the situation I found myself in.

I raise these issues not for sympathy or because I want people to say, “That’s terrible. It shouldn’t have happened to you,” but because I feel that my story is only one among the thousands that happen in this country every year. The impact and extent of maternity discrimination is not always obvious. It is not always about having a job to return to; it is about all the issues surrounding that. We have to address those issues. The NHS has quite robust policies in place, but lots of organisations do not, so other women find themselves in much more difficult situations.

I had support from my union, Unite, which I would like to thank. I applied to the tribunal and paid the fee, but many women cannot afford that and do not have support. That issue has to be addressed. In the Scottish Parliament, the plan is to scrap tribunal fees. The Minister should look at doing the same, or at least ensuring that the fees are based on the ability to pay or are smaller. Tribunal fees put so many people off. Given the stages I went through with my grievance, I have no doubt that, had I not had the potential to go to a tribunal at the end of the process, my concerns and the issues I raised would have been disregarded. A “reasonable adjustment” would have been made or an explanation would have been given, and they would not have been taken seriously.

Women should not be discriminated against for something that is so natural—having a family—particularly when they are pregnant or have just had a baby, because that is when they are most vulnerable. It is our duty to take these issues forward and give women as much protection as we can. There are already statutory obligations, but they need to be strengthened because there are far too many ways around them.

Women do not experience equality in the workplace and are unlikely to unless we take action and make employers’ obligations very clear. I would like the protections to be extended and clarified; it should be made obvious to employers that they apply during the period of pregnancy and the maternity leave period, and also for a period on return, because those are all periods in which women are vulnerable.

We need to make it explicit that women have the right to training opportunities, job opportunities and management opportunities. They must not come back to a workload that has not been done while they were off. The advice of their GP or medical practitioner should be taken on board. At the very least, those things should be happening. This is a huge problem for many, so let us acknowledge it and ensure that the Government work across the United Kingdom for women and equality.

--- Later in debate ---

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy (Margot James)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Chope. I congratulate the hon. Member for Washington and Sunderland West (Mrs Hodgson) on securing this debate in such a timely manner—as she pointed out, we are between International Women’s Day and mothering Sunday, which is apt.

I thank all Members for their excellent and thought-provoking contributions. We heard from my right hon. Friend the Member for Basingstoke (Mrs Miller), the hon. Member for Glasgow Central (Alison Thewliss) and the hon. Member for Batley and Spen (Tracy Brabin), whom I heard speak for the first time and who gave an excellent speech. We also heard from the hon. Member for East Kilbride, Strathaven and Lesmahagow (Dr Cameron)—I hope I pronounced that right—the hon. Member for Lanark and Hamilton East (Angela Crawley) and the shadow Minister, the hon. Member for Rotherham (Sarah Champion), who reminded us all of the unacceptable extent of pregnancy discrimination, which was unearthed by the EHRC’s good work.

This is the first time we have considered maternity discrimination since the Government responded to the Women and Equalities Committee’s recommendations, and I very much welcome the opportunity to discuss what we are doing. I have made careful note of some of the things that were raised that point to the need for further action.

I shall begin by making it clear that pregnancy and maternity-related discrimination has absolutely no place in today’s workplace or a progressive society. It is illegal, and the Government are committed to tackling it. Women make up 47% of the labour force, and more than 15 million women are active in the labour force at any time. Female talent and experience make a huge contribution to the productivity of individual businesses and the economy generally. I have spent more of my career in business than in politics, and I add that mothers bring a huge amount of experience from their responsibilities in that role. I very much agree with hon. Members who made the important point that pregnancy is not visible enough. There was a time when women almost had to hide the fact that they had children to progress in their careers. We have moved on from those days, but not enough.

In her excellent speech, the hon. Member for Washington and Sunderland West talked about the effect of pregnancy discrimination on the wider economy in lost tax revenues and increased benefit costs, to say nothing of the personal financial loss to the women concerned and their families. We are committed to building an economy that works for everyone, and supporting all women, including mothers, so that they can participate in the labour market to their full potential if they choose to do so is an important part of that work.

I am grateful to the Women and Equalities Committee for its thorough review of this issue, and I echo the many complimentary remarks that hon. Members made about the excellent chairing of that Committee by my right hon. Friend the Member for Basingstoke. We responded to each of the recommendations in the Committee’s report, setting out additional steps to protect pregnant women and new mothers, but as I said, I accept from what I have heard this morning that we still have more to do.

We have committed to review redundancy protection. Our thinking is at an early stage, but it is clear that new and expectant mothers need to be supported and treated fairly by their employers, and that does not always happen. The hon. Member for Washington and Sunderland West asked me to update the House on where we are with the review. It would be bit premature for me to do so, but I will be able to shortly. I will write to her when I am in a position to update her properly.

The findings of the research into pregnancy and maternity-related discrimination and disadvantage that was commissioned jointly by my Department and the EHRC paint a picture of some workplaces that is quite at odds with expectations in today’s society. We have a legal framework that gives pregnant women and new mothers rights and protections, and women have a means of legal redress if they are discriminated against because they are pregnant or take time away from work to care for their baby.

We have heard from several Members about the practical challenge for new mothers of bringing cases to tribunal, where that is necessary, within the statutory three-month limit. As we set out in our response to the Committee, tribunals have discretion to allow claims after more than three months have elapsed, where that is just and equitable, but I accept that that is in the gift of the tribunal and is not the same as people having the right to a longer period. We will consider what further guidance could better clarify the position.

[Dr Cameron]

Will the Minister give way?

[Margot James]

I will give way just once, because I am mindful that there were a lot of questions and I do not have much time.

[Dr Cameron]

There is another issue I wanted to raise. When I originally contacted ACAS regarding the situation I found myself in, rather than informing me that there was a critical three-month window in which to apply for a tribunal, I was told to go through a grievance procedure in the NHS, which takes much longer than three months. Does the Minister agree that it is important that women are given advice as to the timing of the tribunal and the need for an application to be in place before using the grievance procedure?

[Margot James]

I thank the hon. Lady for her intervention. I hope the situation has improved since she used the service but, in case it has not, I will write to the chairman of ACAS to convey her concerns.

The hon. Lady also asked about the time limit and how it is interpreted. The three-month time limit applies from the date the discrimination happened but, when there is a series of events, the time limit runs from the end of that series. There are flexibilities, and time limits can be extended where it is equitable to do so, such as if it is not reasonable to expect a woman on maternity leave to have been aware of events while she was away.

We are keen to help mothers return to jobs that make full use of their qualifications and experience, and to enable them to progress. Part of that is about removing specific barriers. We know that from the EHRC research, and we have brought in the working forward campaign, which intends to improve advice and share best practice, calling on employers to make workplaces the best they can be for pregnant women and new mothers. We have some way to go on that.

However, more than 100 employers, representing 1.2 million employees across the UK, have signed up to the initiative, which is an important milestone. Many of the employers pledging action such as Barclays, Nationwide, Royal Mail and Ford are putting in place returners programmes and means of staying in touch with pregnant women and new mothers on maternity leave, which is another point that was made.[Official Report, 23 March 2017, Vol. 623, c. 11-12MC.] I am pleased to say that the Department for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy has joined the campaign and I hope that more employers will be inspired to sign up.

I said I would return to the ways in which we are helping to address the barriers. Couples can take advantage of shared parental leave and pay, and the extension of the right to request flexible working to all employees with 26 weeks’ service can help mothers among others to combine work with caring responsibilities. I accept that people sometimes feel inhibited about requesting flexible working arrangements, but as that becomes more commonplace and as we put more behind campaigns to raise awareness of how easy it can be and how it can improve productivity and make companies more competitive, I hope that people will feel less inhibited and the situation will improve.

We are now introducing the entitlement to 30 hours’ free childcare for working parents of three and four-year-olds as well as tax-free childcare, enabling more children than ever to benefit from Government-funded childcare. To help monitor progress, we require large organisations to publish their gender pay gap and bonus pay gap data. We are committed to supporting mothers and fathers to balance work with family life in a way that works for them and their circumstances. I echo the remarks made by the shadow Minister that it is disappointing that the only man who has participated in the debate—from a sedentary position—is indeed the Chairman. We need to get male colleagues involved in these debates and discussions, because mothers’ issues are not just the preserve of mothers.

Several hon. Members raised the issues for self-employed women. In fact, the hon. Member for Hampstead and Kilburn (Tulip Siddiq) talked about her position as an MP, which brought that home to me. Of course, she is not alone. The reason she found herself in that unacceptable position when she was pregnant last year was because MPs are not employees. We are workers, and in this area we have fewer rights than we would if we were employees.

That brings me to Matthew Taylor’s review—several hon. Members asked for an update. The review is fully under way and one of the issues on its agenda is to consider the different employment rights afforded to workers and employees. That very much includes rights to maternity benefits—and indeed paternity benefits. The review is consulting around the country. There will be a series of town hall meetings—I will attend one in Glasgow next month—and he will report back to the Government in July.

There are many factors to consider when it comes to enhancing rights funded by the public purse. Having carefully considered the issue, we have concluded that it is right to look at the case for having greater parity in parental benefits between the employed and self-employed. The Chancellor announced last week that we will consult on that specifically, independently of the Matthew Taylor review, during the summer.

A number of other questions were asked, and I am sorry if I cannot do justice to all of them in the time remaining. At the beginning of the debate, we heard a recommendation for employers to be required to undertake an individual health and safety risk assessment for pregnant women. Employers must already safeguard the health of women who are pregnant, so I was disturbed to hear about instances where that was patently not the case. Legally, employers should safeguard the health of women who are pregnant. The Health and Safety Executive has at least updated and strengthened its guidance in that respect. We dealt with the redundancy matter, at least as it stands at the moment.

The hon. Member for Glasgow Central talked about incentivising employers to take on part-time workers and consider flexible working. That is an extremely important issue, which I have dealt with, as I have dealt with existing flexibilities for maternity. I will turn to the issue—