ISIL in Syria

Lisa Cameron Excerpts

Wednesday 2nd December 2015 Commons Chamber

[Dr Julian Lewis (New Forest East) (Con)]

Hon. Members are being asked to back airstrikes against Daesh in order to show solidarity with our French and American friends, yet a gesture of solidarity, however sincerely meant, cannot be a substitute for hard-headed strategy.

Most Defence Committee members probably intend to vote for such airstrikes, but I shall vote against airstrikes, in the absence of credible ground forces, as ineffective and potentially dangerous, just as I voted against the proposal to bomb Assad in 2013. Indeed, the fact that the British Government wanted to bomb first one side and then the other in the same civil war, and in such a short space of time, illustrates to my mind a vacuum at the heart of our strategy.

At least we are now targeting our deadly Islamist enemies, rather than trying to bring down yet another dictator with the same likely results as in Iraq and Libya. Daesh must indeed be driven out of its territory militarily, but that can be done only by a credible force that is ready and able to do the fighting on the ground. So who will supply that force, without which airstrikes cannot prevail?

The failure of the ineptly named “Arab spring” in so many countries shows the two most likely outcomes: a victory for authoritarian dictatorship on the one hand, or a victory for revolutionary Islamism on the other. Moderation and democracy have barely featured in the countries affected, and Syria seems to be no exception. I am genuinely sorry to say that we face a choice between very nasty authoritarians and Islamist totalitarians; there is no third way.

Our Government, however, are in denial about that. They do concede that airstrikes must be in support of ground forces, and they have come up with a remarkable figure, from the Joint Intelligence Committee, of 70,000 so-called moderate fighters with whom we can supposedly co-ordinate our airstrikes. It is very doubtful, however, were such an alliance to be successful, that the territory freed from Daesh would cease to be under Islamist control.

[Dr Lisa Cameron (East Kilbride, Strathaven and Lesmahagow) (SNP)]

Can the right hon. Gentleman comment specifically on the independent reports indicating that the Free Syrian Army is currently selling supplied weapons to Daesh in its own fight against Assad?

--- Later in debate ---

[Natalie McGarry (Glasgow East) (Ind)]

I admire your fortitude, Mr Speaker, in sitting in the Chair for so long. I am very pleased to be able to speak, because I visited Rojava in north-eastern Syria for eight days in October, to speak to the commanders of the YPJ and the YPG, who are fighting Daesh directly on the frontline, and to the leaders of democratic non-confederalism about the democratic revolution happening in that part of the world.

The Kurds I met were very clear that they were working to protect areas and to retake areas taken by Daesh, such as Kobane. They are limiting their actions to those areas inhabited by the Kurdish population. They are not expansionist. If they are to be considered as part of the alleged 70,000 moderate ground forces put forward by the Government, their geographic limitation must give us all pause for thought. They told me that, in the first instance, they want a democratic solution to the ongoing civil war. Daesh exists and thrives in the vacuum and chaos of the uprising, and the continued instability of Syria lies in a fractured, multifaceted, multi-layered and multi-factioned response to Assad’s brutality and suppression.

[Dr Lisa Cameron]

Does the hon. Lady share my concerns that the allies involved appear to have conflicting goals and outcomes that they wish to achieve in Syria, and that we would simply be adding to the chaos and destruction of Syria?

[Natalie McGarry]

I thank my hon. Friend for making that point. I will come to it later; I completely agree with her. Syria will continue to be unstable until the world realises that the only solution is democracy. When will the UK understand that “shoot first, repent later” is the wrong strategy? Indeed, Harry Patch, the last Tommy, who died in 2009, wrote:

“All those lives lost for a war finished over a table. Now what is the sense in that?”

The Prime Minister refers to allies such as the French, the Russians, the Turks and the Kurds, but the Turks recently exploded a Russian military aircraft, and they continue to bomb the Kurds who are fighting Daesh in north-eastern Syria and in the Kurdish Regional Government area of northern Iraq. They are also accused of closing the trade border, necessitating a pontoon bridge that is subject to intermittent trade embargoes—the only relatively safe trade and transport route from the KRG. Turkey is making it harder for the Kurds to tackle Daesh.

The Russians were accused by the Syrians, while I was there, of bombing moderate opposition to Assad. Meanwhile, I spotted Hezbollah fighters in the Assad-controlled parts and streets of al-Qamishli. There are already too many agents in this conflict. The French, the Americans, the Russians, Israel, Turkey and others are already destroying Syria and deploying airstrikes there, with no strategic plans and little success. How can we proceed when we are not even sure who our allies are and who they are allied to? Why would the UK think that repeating the same mistakes could lead to a different conclusion?

The UK needs to support the creation of a safe no-bomb zone in Syria in the first instance to protect ground troops, such as they are, in tackling Assad and Daesh, and to protect internal refugees. We need to support Vienna, and a more comprehensive strategy aimed at a democratic solution to the civil war. Key to defeating Daesh is stopping the money flow. Contrary to some impressions, Daesh operates extremely strategically, closing supply routes and controlling infrastructure. Serious money props that up. Where is it coming from? Who supplies the arms? Who is purchasing the oil? Cutting the funding will kill Daesh more effectively than gesture airstrikes.

The people I spoke to in Syria stayed in Syria because they want to fight Assad and Daesh. We owe them better than treating them merely as statistics, and their country as a casualty of perceived international obligations.