Immigration Queues (UK Airports)

Debate between Lindsay Hoyle and Denis MacShane

Monday 30th April 2012 Commons Chamber

[Mr Denis MacShane (Rotherham) (Lab)]

We want secure borders and decent queues. When we turn left on to a long haul plane, it is usually a nice experience. When we turn left at Heathrow terminal 5 or Gatwick, leaving the American, Canadian, Indian or Turkish passenger whom we have been chatting with, to struggle through those queues, it is a very unpleasant welcome.

I welcome what the Minister has said; it is a good idea to have squads who can run around filling in the holes. But every time I have come back to Britain recently—and I come back a lot—it is embarrassing that there are so many empty control points. I really hope that hon. Members—

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle)]

Order. Hon. Members should be asking short questions, not making speeches. [Interruption.] Mr MacShane, you can throw yourself back on the Bench as much as you want, but it is not going to impress me. I brought you on early to get you in, and I am sorry that you are disgruntled.

Points of Order

Debate between Lindsay Hoyle and Denis MacShane

Thursday 26th April 2012 Commons Chamber

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle)]

That is not a point of order for me to deal with. It was put on the record yesterday and the hon. Lady has also put it on the record, and I think the issue will come back to the House.

[Mr Denis MacShane (Rotherham) (Lab)]

On a point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker. Twice in the business statement the Leader of the House made a comparison between Mr Adam Smith, the special adviser who has just left his post, and another special adviser who left under completely different circumstances, and who was widely condemned on both sides of the House and by the public. It is unfair to cast aspersions and slurs on special advisers. The Leader of the House was not doing it in a nasty way, which I understand, but all Government Ministers are nervous and are very unhappy about this situation. Everybody says Mr Smith’s behaviour was completely straight and honest, and only reflected the wishes and orders of his master. This House should not cast any negative aspersions on that gentleman.

[Mr Deputy Speaker]

As the right hon. Gentleman knows, it is up to Members and Ministers to be responsible for their words and actions in the House; it is not for the Chair to make a decision on that matter.

SCOTLAND BILL (PROGRAMME) (NO.3)

Motion made, and Question put forthwith (Standing Order No. 83A(7)),

That the following provisions shall apply to the Scotland Bill for the purpose of supplementing the Orders of 27 January 2011 (Scotland Bill (Programme)) and 21 June 2011 (Scotland Bill (Programme) (No. 2)):

Consideration of Lords Amendments

1. Proceedings on Consideration of Lords Amendments shall (so far as not previously concluded) be brought to a conclusion three hours after their commencement at today’s sitting.

Subsequent stages

2. Any further Message from the Lords may be considered forthwith without any Question being put.

3. The proceedings on any further Message from the Lords shall (so far as not previously concluded) be brought to a conclusion one hour after their commencement.—(Michael Fabricant.)

Question agreed to.

Equality and Diversity (Reform) Bill

Debate between Lindsay Hoyle and Denis MacShane

Friday 21st October 2011 Commons Chamber

[Mr MacShane]

I am following my hon. Friend’s speech with great interest, and I hope that it is only in its initial stages, because the Bill that follows really is a ghastly assault on privilege and fair play.

Is it not a paradox that, even with equality legislation, every single person currently in the Chamber is white, middle-aged and male? That is not the case with those slightly outside the Chamber in the civil servants’ box or the Serjeant at Arms’ seat, but it is—

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle)]

Order. This is not relevant. We are dealing with the Bill, and Members should be speaking to the Bill. I am sure the hon. Member for Rhondda (Chris Bryant) does not want to get led all over the place. We have already seen that coming from the Government side, and I certainly do not want to see it coming from the Opposition side.

Point of Order

Debate between Lindsay Hoyle and Denis MacShane

Thursday 13th October 2011 Commons Chamber

[Mr Denis MacShane (Rotherham) (Lab)]

On a point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker. Along with other right hon. and hon. Members, I received today a letter from the Minister of State, Department for Work and Pensions, the right hon. Member for Epsom and Ewell (Chris Grayling), saying that in future all his communications with us would be by e-mail. I do not challenge the sincerity of his desire not to spend an evening signing letters, or to be quicker or save a bit of paper, but I really do think it is a worry. When we send letters on to constituents, they should not be PDFs or bits of e-mails; they should be letters. They represent an important relationship between the state and the citizen. I am not sure, either, of the legal authority of letters that have not been physically signed. I do not want to add work for Ministers—believe me, I know what it is like—but will you look at the matter with your colleagues, perhaps including the Leader of the House, who is kindly in his seat, and work out whether it is a good initiative for any Minister to take?

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle)]

That was discussed at Speaker’s conference this morning, and Mr Speaker is certainly uneasy about it. Concern was expressed by the other Deputy Speakers, as well. I can say that Mr Speaker will investigate the matter.

Civil List

Debate between Lindsay Hoyle and Denis MacShane

Thursday 30th June 2011 Commons Chamber

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle)]

Order. The right hon. Gentleman is in danger of straying into—

[Mr MacShane]

rose—

[Mr Deputy Speaker]

No, I will finish. Individual names are being attached to what is being said, and that is not what we should be doing. This is a general debate on the civil list, and we should not refer to individual members of the royal family or to individual amounts spent.

[Mr MacShane]

There, to some extent, we have it. I accept fully your ruling—

[Mr Deputy Speaker]

Order. I will go on to the next speaker if the right hon. Gentleman does not accept it.

[Mr MacShane]

I said that I accept your ruling fully, Mr Deputy Speaker, and I will not say another word, save that—[Laughter.] If it is in order, Mr Deputy Speaker, I should like to say that it is not right for this debate to take place in the Daily Mail, The Daily Telegraph and The Independent but not on the Floor of the House. That is all.

[Mr Deputy Speaker]

Order. There are clear rules for this House that we have to abide by. The right hon. Gentleman might not like it, but that is the case.

[Mr MacShane]

I actually believe that a plane should be made available for the use of senior Government Ministers, including the PM. He had to scrounge a lift from Prague to Brussels with the Czech President the other day. He got something out of it, but frankly, every senior Minister in most democracies has that mode of transport available to them. Our planes are continually available to any member of the royal family, while elected Ministers come second.

We then have the problem of explaining why the present monarch and the next one are such giant landowners. Is that an issue that we might be able to debate, Mr Deputy Speaker?

Of course we all enjoyed the royal wedding celebration this year and we will enjoy the diamond jubilee next year. Roman emperors promised their subjects panem et circenses: the current Government are doing their best to reduce the quota of panem with their cuts and cruelties imposed on the poor and handicapped, but they are increasing the availability of circenses through the royal shows.

I do not believe that there is any kind of republican mood in the country. It was interesting to hear the oleaginous loyalty, if I may put it that way, expressed by my hon. Friend the Member for Newport West (Paul Flynn), who had a tremendous enthusiasm for the monarchy, which has surprised many of us. I remember the silver jubilee in Rotherham in 1978, when I am told that 41,000 Union Jack flags were sold in the socialist republic of South Yorkshire.

If we look at the European Union, we see that the states that are monarchies—Sweden, Denmark, the Netherlands and even, with all its troubles, Spain—enjoy less partisan and less conflictual politics. When it comes to growth, distribution and a fair social settlement since the second world war, we find that the EU’s monarchies generally have a much better record than the EU’s republics. The royal families, however, are also much cheaper there. In Spain, with its King, Queen and wonderful royal palace where I had the privilege and honour of having dinner with the Crown Prince of the Asturias and the lovely Princess—and Prince Charles—a few weeks ago— [Interruption.] The food was free, but I paid for my own air fare. The total cost of the whole Spanish monarch is €8.4 million, while the Queen of the Netherlands gets by on €828,000.

I ask only that we do some comparative analysis before simply continuing with an arrangement that, even with the Chancellor’s proposed modernisations, remains deeply anachronistic.

Registration of Members’ Financial Interests

Debate between Lindsay Hoyle and Denis MacShane

Monday 7th February 2011 Commons Chamber

[Mr MacShane]

I think it is appropriate for this matter to be discussed in the debate, because it is a great worry to many people that an organisation with a very clear ideological purpose should be seeking to infiltrate the House of Commons and act as a secretariat. My Muslim constituents are worried about that. I do not know Mrs Bunglawala, but I have certainly heard Mr Bunglawala say at a meeting that he cannot condemn the lapidation—stoning to death—of women, because thus it is written in the Koran. He is entitled to that point of view, but I do not think it should be propagated. As the Prime Minister rightly says, and as I have been saying for some time, we have to keep ultra-Islamist ideologues out of our campuses and keep them from poisoning young minds. If there is even a hint of suspicion—and there is more than that—that it is now the secretariat of an all-party group, it is quite appropriate for the matter to be raised tonight.

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle)]

Order. I think that we are in danger of straying into security matters. I would like us to try to keep to the motion. I know that it is broad, but we are in danger of going down an avenue that could possibly lead to security matters about who is and who is not issued with a pass. I would therefore appreciate it if we stuck to the general motion.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle)]

Order. I am not going to be tempted down that avenue. We have said that we have a debate before us, and I want to make sure that everybody is aware that we stick to it. The motions are about the new rules and the future of groups. We are talking about an issue that has happened, and I believe that that discussion ought to take place in another forum—the appropriate forum. The detail that we are getting down to is not for here, tonight. This debate is not about that.

[Mr MacShane]

On a point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker. The motion is widely drafted. It states:

“If a charity or not-for-profit organisation is registered as the group’s secretariat, the former’s name and website must also be registered.”

It also states that such an organisation must announce what it is and tell us about the details of its website. One cannot argue a general case without adducing evidence and examples, and the hon. Member for Harlow (Robert Halfon) is doing exactly that. There really is no point in debating these things—

[Mr Deputy Speaker]

Order. That is not a point of order. I have got to say that the debate must relate to the motion before us, but it is not at the moment. As much as advice might be given from right hon. and hon. Members, I am making the ruling. The debate must be related to the motion before us—that is the end of that. If the hon. Member for Harlow wishes to continue on the motion before us or to relate the two motions together, that is fine.

European Union Bill

Debate between Lindsay Hoyle and Denis MacShane

Tuesday 1st February 2011 Commons Chamber

[The Chairman of Ways and Means (Mr Lindsay Hoyle)]

Order. Upper Houses are not relevant to this stand part debate, so let us stick to the clause. I am sure that Mr MacShane will want to come back to that subject.

[Mr MacShane]

I am tempted to say—though, thank goodness, oral amendments are not allowed in Committee of the whole House—that the increase in MEPs at the heart of this part of the Bill could be allocated to representatives from national Parliaments at some future date. I am just stretching the limits of order—[Interruption.] I am about to sit down, Mr Hoyle. I am inviting the Minister to open a debate about how to make the European Parliament more representative and more reflective of the national will in the different countries that constitute the EU. That might require a small treaty change, but not, I am sure, a significant one, so we would not need to initiate the referendum provisions.

We often knock the European Parliament because of expenses or costs or decisions it has taken that we do not like, which is frankly rather childish. What we need is a more serious debate about making the European Parliament more effective, more efficient and more representative—leaving aside those who want to abolish it or to withdraw completely from it. I invite the Minister to engage with that debate, although he may well hope that once proceedings on the Bill are concluded there will be no more debate about the EU on his side of the House for the next few years.

[Mr MacShane]

The Verfassungsgericht in Germany, of course, sees the German people—das Volk—as the sovereign, and distinguishes clearly between the Bundestag and the Bundesrat. It allocates powers on a subsidiary basis—

[The Chairman of Ways and Means (Mr Lindsay Hoyle)]

Order. Again, we really are drifting from the subject, and we must return to it. The right hon. Gentleman said earlier that he was winding up his speech, but he is now broadening it again.

[Mr MacShane]

Not many Members wish to speak, Mr Hoyle, so I was trying to reply to the hon. Member for Aldridge-Brownhills (Mr Shepherd), but I now invite him to read some expert books on the subject instead.

--- Later in debate ---

[The Chairman]

Order. That has absolutely nothing to with the clause. I think that the right hon. Member for Rotherham (Mr MacShane) had better sum up his speech now.

[Mr MacShane]

Might my hon. Friend possibly accept that on this occasion I really must bow to the Chair and sit down?

Estates of Deceased Persons (Forfeiture Rule and Law of Succession) Bill

Debate between Lindsay Hoyle and Denis MacShane

Friday 21st January 2011 Commons Chamber

[Mr Denis MacShane (Rotherham) (Lab)]

On a point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker. We are being informed by television that Mr Andy Coulson, one of the most important figures in Her Majesty’s Government and one of the Prime Minister’s closest aides, is now resigning. As the House is sitting, I believe that it would be appropriate for the Prime Minister to come to the Commons, explain why that is happening and give the public the full details here in the House of Commons, rather than burying the news on a day when, frankly, an awful lot of other news is taking place. This is the Commons, where the Prime Minister should—

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle)]

Order. That is not a point of order, as the right hon. Gentleman, who has long been a Member of the House, knows. The fact that a member of the Prime Minister’s staff has resigned has nothing to do with the House.

European Union Bill

Debate between Lindsay Hoyle and Denis MacShane

Tuesday 11th January 2011 Commons Chamber

[Mr MacShane]

rose—

[The Chairman]

Order. We cannot have two hon. Members on their feet at the same time.

European Union Bill

Debate between Lindsay Hoyle and Denis MacShane

Tuesday 7th December 2010 Commons Chamber

[Mr MacShane]

On a point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker. The hon. Lady is still very young.

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle)]

I think we can rule that point of order out of order.

Identity Documents Bill

Debate between Lindsay Hoyle and Denis MacShane

Wednesday 15th September 2010 Commons Chamber

[Mr MacShane]

Can we nail this extraordinary new constitutional doctrine that because a party thinks it is going to win an election, everything should come to a dead halt before the people have voted? I saw the shadow Home Secretary at the Great Eastern Tandoori restaurant in Pimlico the day after the election, except he was not to become the Home Secretary. Should he receive compensation? We really have to stop this nonsense. Power might have changed hands, but we should still accept responsibility and pay the compensation.

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle)]

Order. Members are getting carried away with interventions, and we ought to stick to the point. Mr MacShane should know better.