Economic Crime and Corporate Transparency Bill (Eleventh sitting)

Liam Byrne Excerpts

Committee stage
Tuesday 15th November 2022 Public Bill Committees

[Dame Margaret Hodge]

I know it is, but most of that comes from the economic crime levy. The £300 million comes from the economic crime levy; £100 million comes from the Government’s coffers. Correct me if I am wrong, but that is my understanding of it, so a third of that—£32 million or £33 million—is the Government’s annual contribution out of taxation. That is where I got the figure from. If I am wrong, I stand to be corrected, but that is my understanding.

Looking across the world, even the British Virgin Islands, our favourite secrecy jurisdiction, charges £1,000 to people who wish to create a company there; I cannot think that that has put anyone off using the BVI if they want a secrecy jurisdiction to support them. Australia charges £247; in the USA, in California, it is £150; in Delaware, another secrecy jurisdiction, it is £590; in New York, £570; Italy, £2,000; and Germany, £383. Even with our new clause, we would still be a cheap place in which to do business.

That is all I need to say at this point. We brought in new clause 40 because we think that should also be embedded. The Minister may tell me that it happens, but we think it should be embedded in legislation so that no future Government are ever tempted to take the money they earn from fees and put it towards other purposes. I hope that the Minister will accept that.

Again, correct me if I am wrong, but I have not seen anything in legislation that ensures that money raised in fees goes directly to enforcement. The Minister may want to do that, but his successors may not feel the same. The issue is never a high political priority so it is important that we get sustainability for the issue over time. That is the reason for the new clause.

[Liam Byrne (Birmingham, Hodge Hill) (Lab)]

It is a pleasure to speak with you in the Chair, Mr Robertson. It is fantastic for the Minister to be able to kick off today with this debate—surely there has never been a Minister as lucky as this one is in taking this Bill through Committee. Here we have an entire Opposition side of the Committee united in wanting to give the Minister the tools to do the job—the job for which he has argued for years and years in this House.

We want to send the Minister into the spending review, with his colleague the Chancellor of the Exchequer, with his hands bound. We want to ensure that he goes into those conversations with the law of the land changed, so that he is required to put up the fees for Companies House and actually has the money he needs to do the job. We know that that is not going to damage the business investment environment in this country. How? Because it could not get any worse than it is today.

The business investment level in this country over the last 12 years has now been the worst in the G7, so it is unlikely to get any worse if fees at Companies House are put up a little bit: it is already spectacularly bad. That underlines a simple point: that the level of economic crime in this country is now so infamous around the world that it could be damaging the level of business investment here. If we are known around the world—certainly, in Washington and in European capitals—as a global epicentre of dirty money, how does that help us become a great, global hub of business investment in years to come? Obviously, it does not. There is a competitive advantage to be had by becoming one of the great capitals of clean trade. Here we are, an Opposition united in wanting to help the Minister achieve that ambition and make sure that he has the resources to do the job.

In the public evidence sessions, we heard a clear set of arguments as to why these amendments need to be made. We heard that our country has now become the centre of the Russian laundromat, the Troika laundromat and the Azerbaijan laundromat. Indeed, the Security Minister and I were on the Foreign Affairs Committee together when we heard the most appalling evidence that some of the biggest money-laundering scandals have involved UK corporate structures more than anything else; I think I am right that about 40% of the billions laundered through Danske Bank came through UK corporate structures. That is truly a mark of shame, and why Bill Browder was absolutely right when said in evidence to this Committee that it is appalling—a matter of shame—that there has been only one prosecution for money-laundering around economic crime in this country. That truly is an appalling record of law enforcement.

Worse than that, we also heard from the Independent Reviewer of Terrorism Legislation that the situation is not simply bad news for economic crime, but a national security issue. When the Independent Reviewer of Terrorism Legislation tells the Committee that it is a matter of national security that we clean up the dark mass of economic crime in this country, we as Members of Parliament ought to listen and do something about it. Then we heard from a range of police specialists who said, first, that they thought the problem was getting much worse quite quickly, and secondly, that they did not have the resources they needed to enforce the law in this area.

All that evidence points in one direction: Companies House needs more money. When we took evidence from representatives of Companies House, we heard, startlingly, that they have not even discussed their budget with the Treasury for the next financial year, which is due to start in only a few months’ time. They mooted the idea of asking for cash for an extra 100 people, which the dogs in the street know is not going to be enough to enforce the measures in the Bill.

With all his native cunning and wit, the Minister needs to find a way to make the concessions the Opposition are asking for and to agree to the amendment, so that he can be the great, historic, legendary, reforming Minister who took the bull by the horns once and for all and helped make sure that this country is once more renowned around the world as a capital of clean trade—all because of the efforts, cunning and wisdom of the Minister in accepting the amendment before him today.

[Kevin Hollinrake]

I thank the right hon. Gentleman and other Members for the amendments and their contributions. I would never take credit for all the progress we are making on economic crime. In fact, I would hark back to the words of Ronald Reagan, who said something like, “There is no limit to what you can achieve in life, as long as you don’t mind who takes the credit.” I am happy to share the credit with anybody on this Committee or the many people who have campaigned on the issue over the years.

One thing I do agree with the Opposition about—it is a point on which we all agree—is that Companies House and the other enforcement agencies should have enough money to do the job. That is what we are trying to get to and what I think we will get to. I also agree that, in the past and currently, enforcement agencies have been and are under-resourced, so we need to do something about that. I also have to agree with myself on the statements I made about the proportion of spending on law enforcement for economic crime and in respect of the Treasury Committee report’s conclusion that Companies House fees should be raised. My position on that absolutely stands.

I disagree on a number of points, the first being that this situation is somehow just the current Government’s fault—that somehow, Companies House fees have been reduced to £12 over recent years. That is not the case; it has been the case for years, including when Opposition Members were in charge of setting those fees. The right hon. Member for Birmingham, Hodge Hill was in the Treasury at the time when fees were at £12. The reason for that is that Companies House has always had the principle that its fees are levied to the extent it needs to do the job that it is set to do.

[Liam Byrne]

Will the Minister give way?

[Kevin Hollinrake]

Very briefly, because we are over half an hour into this debate already.

[Liam Byrne]

We are just getting warmed up. The Minister is absolutely right to flag that point. The fee level was always set in relation to the perception of the crime environment at the time, which was very different in 2009-10 from what it is today. As we have heard in the evidence, the crime environment is much worse and is multiplying exponentially each year, which is why the fees have to go up so dramatically. Hopefully, that is the point he is going to make.

[Kevin Hollinrake]

Again, we are all in agreement. Changing the environment is what this Bill—this very substantial document—is all about. There is no doubt that the situation has been hastened by what we have seen in Ukraine and other matters. It is absolutely high time to do this; I agree.

The shadow Minister suggested that somehow the fees to Companies House are going to face cuts in the future—that is the opposite of what is happening. I think he said the disparity would widen and there would be an absence of additional funding. That is absolutely the wrong way to look at the situation. The right hon. Member for Barking said that somehow these matters would be subject to cuts, and we would have to go to the Treasury as part of the comprehensive spending review to get funding for Companies House. That is exactly what is not happening—what is happening is that Companies House will collect the fees that it needs to do the job.

The position we take is that we do not put the cart before the horse. Companies House needs to set out exactly what resources, staffing and IT implementation it will need to do the job. It will present that to the Treasury and the Department for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy and say, “Right, this is what we need to do”. Fees will then be set on a commensurate basis and ringfenced to the job, not stolen by the Treasury. They are set in accordance with the rules and the oversight that they need, including enforcement. As we know, Companies House is moving from that dumb register to being a proactive body, in terms of overseeing the integrity of the register.

--- Later in debate ---

[Kevin Hollinrake]

It is under the affirmative resolution. Different Members have suggested different figures, from £50 to £100. The right hon. Member for Barking said £1,000, as if to say, “We charge that in the BVI, therefore why not charge it in the UK?” That was the implication. What she said was that the people who look to use those jurisdictions to hide their money would be quite happy to pay £1,000, but that is exactly the point. On 99.9% of occasions, we are not just dealing with companies that indulge in nefarious activities; we are talking about not deterring bona fide businesses by setting the fee level at a fair level that does not deter business activity but does mean that Companies House has the right enforcement capability. That is what we want to get to, and we want to ensure that Companies House is able to do that.

I will touch on a couple of the points made about the SFO case last week, which I think we all welcome. It was not actually about resourcing; changing legislation made that possible. It was about corporate criminal liability and failure to prevent, which was successfully enforced in that case. That is a lesson for us all. The right hon. Member for Birmingham, Hodge Hill said that there has been only one case ever of a successful economic crime prosecution in the UK, and that Bill Browder had said that. Mr Browder did not say that; there have been many prosecutions of economic crime. To clarify, he was talking about it in connection to the money that came out of Russia.

Companies House is funded by the fees that it charges. If the Secretary of State considered changing those fees, there would of necessity be an appraisal of the resourcing needs of Companies House before that could take place. Fees can be charged only to cover the costs of the activities that they are intended to fund, including enforcement.

In order to arrive at an appropriate level of fee, my Department would have to work directly with Companies House to determine the funding requirements. Of course, there has to be Government oversight of that, because that is what we are elected to do. It is right that the Secretary of State would oversee that and then present it to Parliament for scrutiny. I agree that companies will justifiably want to understand how and why a particular level of fee has been arrived at, but the mechanism for that already exists. Fees will continue to be set by regulations, and the basis for any changes will be included in the accompanying analysis and explanatory memorandum that are published and presented to Parliament for scrutiny.

New clauses 25 and 33, introduced by the hon. Member for Glasgow Central and the right hon. Member for Barking, will shortly set out intentions on the level of fees to be charged. We do not intend to enshrine a level of fee in primary legislation, as doing so would restrict flexibility that may be required at a future date. We will commit to reviewing the fees on a regular basis to ensure that they provide the funding that Companies House needs.

[Liam Byrne]

I think we all welcome the revelation that fees will be set shortly. What month of the year does the Minister think that might be?

[Kevin Hollinrake]

Sorry, I did not catch that. Will the hon. Gentleman repeat the question? I do apologise.

[Liam Byrne]

The Minister said that he will set out the fees shortly, but what month of the year does he mean by “shortly”?

[Kevin Hollinrake]

I am a new Minister, but I have heard many Ministers speak on such occasions and I have never heard a Minister commit to a date before.

[Liam Byrne]

Break the mould!

[Kevin Hollinrake]

I cannot imagine that in his many years as a Minister the right hon. Gentleman would have ever set out a date, but it will be shortly.

Finally, I turn to proposed new clause 45 and the points made by the right hon. Member for Barking. The Bill amends the fee-raising power within the Companies Act 2006, in order to enable costs associated with investigation and enforcement to be included when setting the level of fees. Companies House is able to retain incorporated fee income under current arrangements between the Treasury and Companies House, with the arrangement reviewed periodically. Legislation does not set the level of fees, but rather the level of fees is set by our regulations. I have to say to the right hon. Member for Barking that that is under the negative resolution procedure and therefore receives parliamentary scrutiny.