Nagorno-Karabakh: Armenian Refugees

Debate between Leo Docherty and Rupa Huq

Tuesday 19th March 2024 Westminster Hall

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Affairs (Leo Docherty)]

I am pleased to be here to answer this important debate, Ms Elliott. I am grateful to the hon. Member for Glasgow North West (Carol Monaghan) for securing it and for highlighting, through reference to her recent experience of travelling in the region, the acute challenges facing those affected by September’s military action in Nagorno-Karabakh. I appreciate her sharing her impressions of her time there.

I am grateful for the contributions of all other hon. Members, and I shall seek to cover off the questions and points raised during this afternoon’s powerful and compelling speeches. I will begin by reflecting on the humanitarian situation, before turning to the topic of peace efforts. As colleagues have concluded this afternoon, lasting peace is at the heart of any long-term solution and any improvement in the lives and livelihoods of people in the region.

As hon. Members have eloquently set out, relations between Armenia and Azerbaijan are deeply complex. The plight of refugees from Nagorno-Karabakh is the most recent chapter in a 35-year conflict in which hundreds of thousands of civilians on both sides have been displaced from their homes. As we have heard this afternoon, Azerbaijan carried out a military operation last September that restored its sovereignty over Nagorno-Karabakh. As a result, nearly the entire ethnic Armenian population of around 100,000 people fled to Armenia, where they faced acute humanitarian challenges.

Although the UK fully recognises Azerbaijan’s sovereignty and territorial integrity, we are also clear that the use of force is not an acceptable means of resolving tensions between communities. As we have heard this afternoon, that military operation followed a nine-month restriction of the Lachin corridor—the only road linking Nagorno-Karabakh to Armenia—which resulted in a dire humanitarian situation, including shortages of food, fuel, medicine and other basic supplies. The UK made it very clear bilaterally, as well as in the OSCE and at the United Nations, restricting access to the Lachin corridor and other supply routes was unacceptable, and we publicly called for access to be restored.

Dwelling on UK action as part of the humanitarian response, we continued to work alongside international partners in both countries to support humanitarian responses to the situation. Last September, as has been discussed this afternoon, we announced £1 million for the Red Cross’s movement of life-saving medication, healthcare and other essential support for the most vulnerable people affected by the conflict. I have heard the calls this afternoon for an increased financial contribution, and I can say that we will of course continue to keep these issues under review. We should also bear in mind that we have contributed £1 million to regional de-mining since 2021. I have noted the views of colleagues this afternoon, and we will also keep that issue under review.

We provided further medical assistance to survivors in Armenia in partnership with the UK medical education database, including medical supplies given to the National Centre for Burns and Dermatology. We are committed to supporting Armenia as it provides for the refugees from Nagorno-Karabakh, and we will continue to work with international partners and the Armenian Government to strengthen their capacity to support the refugees and the communities hosting them. We are also determined to support Azerbaijan to make safe its recovered territories for the return of its own displaced population, as well to ensure the integration of ethnic Armenians who wish to return. As I have mentioned, we have contributed £1.5 million to mine action in the region, which continues to have a very important, lifesaving effect.

I turn to the peace process. I intend during my peroration to answer all the questions posed. It is clear that the peoples of both Armenia and Azerbaijan have suffered greatly during this long-running conflict. That is why the UK Government have been a leading voice in urging peace and engaging extensively with both Governments. I thought my right hon. Friend the Member for Maldon (Sir John Whittingdale) summed up the current feeling when he said that there is a realistic recognition of the current situation and a quiet positivity about the possibility of peace, and I concur with that sentiment.

The UK stands by to be a partner for peace, and we will continue to engage energetically in diplomacy and to offer our ability to convene and encourage. In a nutshell, our role is to try to enable those two countries successfully to come together, settle and conclude a lasting peace.

[Dr Huq]

Would the Minister be able to address the issue raised by my hon. Friend the Member for Cardiff South and Penarth (Stephen Doughty) regarding Russian influence? We hear of Russian peacekeepers, but is that not a contradiction in terms? Should there not be international border forces?

[Leo Docherty]

The hon. Lady is absolutely right: it is a contradiction in terms to refer to Russian peacekeepers. They are nothing of the sort, and we see the Russian role across the region as nothing but extremely unhelpful meddling; I may dwell on that at the end of my remarks. To answer the question posed by the hon. Member for Cardiff South and Penarth (Stephen Doughty) about our approach in the context of Russia’s historical role in the region, it is clear that practical experience has revealed Russia to be an unhelpful and unreliable ally.

It is clearly incumbent on countries such as ours—I say this conscious that His Excellency the Ambassador is in the Public Gallery, and I am very glad to see him there—to offer the hand of friendship and partnership to Armenia. I am very pleased that during my last visit we undertook the first stage of the strategic dialogue that now exists between our two countries. It represents a thickening and deepening of an increasingly meaningful bilateral relationship that is good for both sides and for the region.

On the peace process, in calls with the Foreign Ministers of Armenia and Azerbaijan last September, I urged both sides to return to dialogue and ensure unfettered humanitarian access to the vulnerable people and communities affected by events in Nagorno-Karabakh. The then Foreign Secretary reiterated that message last October when he spoke to various Foreign Ministers. As I mentioned, I visited Yerevan and Baku last November, where I met the leaders and Foreign Ministers of both countries, and I urged them to engage meaningfully in internationally mediated negotiations to reach an agreement and secure a lasting peace for the region. I was delighted that President Aliyev and Prime Minister Pashinyan met in Munich last month at the security conference, and that their Foreign Ministers quickly followed up with a meeting in Berlin at the end of February. We continue to engage energetically on the diplomatic front.

I am encouraged by both sides’ openness to continuing their discussions and to recognising and welcoming the offers of international support. We, in concert with our allies in Europe and across the Atlantic, continue to stand ready to support them at every step of their journey towards peace. I again refer to the comments of my right hon. Friend the Member for Maldon: there is a realistic recognition of the opportunity that lies ahead for both leaders to achieve a meaningful and sustainable peace, and we should be quietly optimistic about that. We will continue to offer support through our diplomacy as they do that important work in a bilateral context, which is something we should be quietly encouraged by.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Leo Docherty and Rupa Huq

Tuesday 31st January 2023 Commons Chamber

[Dr Rupa Huq (Ealing Central and Acton) (Ind)]

1. What diplomatic steps his Department is taking to help support the re-opening of the Lachin corridor and alleviation of the humanitarian situation in Nagorno-Karabakh.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Affairs (Leo Docherty)]

We seek a return to negotiation and a peaceful settlement to the conflict in Nagorno-Karabakh. I spoke to Armenian Foreign Minister Mirzoyan on 18 January regarding the humanitarian situation there, and I met the Azerbaijani ambassador yesterday and noted the urgent need to reopen the Lachin corridor immediately. The Start Fund, to which the United Kingdom is a significant donor, has activated a £350,000 response to support those affected by the developing situation.

[Dr Huq]

This blockade has now run for 50 days and is placing children at risk of malnutrition because of the lack of food and medicine getting through. We have also seen human rights organisations making claims of extrajudicial killings and abuse of prisoners in Nagorno-Karabakh. Yet, when the Minister wrote to my hon. Friend the Member for Newport East (Jessica Morden) to answer her concerns, he bafflingly talked about an expectation that the internal investigation by the Azerbaijan Prosecutor’s Office would produce meaningful results. Surely it cannot be right for the same judge and jury to be marking their own homework? Why can we not press for international, independent solutions to this terrible tragedy?

[Leo Docherty]

What we are pressing for is a return to negotiations and a peaceful settlement to this conflict; I will travel to the region in the coming months and I will make that point.

Iran

Debate between Leo Docherty and Rupa Huq

Thursday 12th January 2023 Commons Chamber

[Leo Docherty]

I am sure that the noble Lord Ahmad will give that matter consideration, as this is his portfolio.

The hon. Member for Ealing Central and Acton (Dr Huq) spoke about the plight of prisoners in Evin jail and those under the banner of “Zan, Zendegi, Azadi”. However, I must correct her on one thing: there is absolutely no way that the UK is supplying riot equipment to the state of Iran. There may have been some suggestion —fake or not—that British equipment was used. Perhaps it was pre-1979 or perhaps it was fake, but I can give her an absolute and forthright assurance that we do not supply the Iranian regime with riot equipment or, indeed, any other equipment.

My right hon. Friend the Member for Clwyd West (Mr Jones) spoke interestingly on Iran’s role as an exporter of terror. He made an eloquent call in support of the people of Iran and a strong argument for proscription, which I note.

The hon. Member for Glasgow North (Patrick Grady) added his support to the voices calling for proscription, for which I am grateful. He also spoke interestingly about the impact of the Iranian supply of drones, with which I certainly agree. Drones were also raised by my hon. Friend the Member for Hendon (Dr Offord), who helpfully put Iran’s activity into a regional context, expressly with regard to the Gulf. I say to my hon. Friend that we should be proud of our forthright stance in the Gulf, especially when it comes to the excellent activities of our Royal Navy minesweepers operating out of our naval base in Bahrain, which, I am sure, is something everyone in this House would celebrate and thank the Navy for. My hon. Friend also made a strong call for IRGC proscription, which is noted.

The hon. Member for Bristol East (Kerry McCarthy) spoke of the bravery of protesters and made some very thoughtful remarks about what leverage we have. She is no longer in her place, but she did ask a relevant question about our leverage. It is the case that—[Interruption.] Oh, she is there. The hon. Lady has moved, but she is still present. Hers was a good question. Of course, we have huge leverage. The fact that Iran has a crippled economy and is a pariah state is due to the activities of the regime, and Iran really does feel that. The possibility of it being welcomed back with an expanded economy and normalised relations is indeed huge leverage, so we must be confident in our ability to effect an outcome for the good of the Iranian people.

My hon. Friend the Member for Southend West (Anna Firth) spoke about refugees in her constituency. She also had some interesting reflections in a cultural context from her aunt in Persia, which showed the difference between pre-1979 conditions and now. She made a strong call for proscription, which is duly noted, as did the right hon. Member for Hayes and Harlington (John McDonnell). We were grateful for his reflections on the labour system in Iran.

The hon. Member for Putney (Fleur Anderson) called strongly for the release of prisoners and mentioned the appalling and very moving case of the young judo champion, Mehdi Karami. We are grateful to her for putting that on the record, as it illustrates the cruelty being carried out in Iran.

The hon. Member for Leeds East (Richard Burgon) reflected on the bravery of the protesters and the scale of the protests, which I thought was an interesting angle, as well as the abhorrent use of the death penalty, as did the hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon). I am grateful to the hon. Member for Strangford for summarising the sheer determination and bravery of the protesters, with which I agree, and for his description of the lack of religious freedom in Iran. His comments as the chair of the all-party parliamentary group for international freedom of religion or belief were welcome.

The SNP spokesperson, the hon. Member for Argyll and Bute (Brendan O’Hara), spoke of some of the heroines of the protest who have suffered appalling treatment and murder at the hands of the regime, which I found moving. I reiterate his remarks that they are not alone. I think this debate serves as an opportunity to reiterate that point.

I was grateful to the Opposition Front-Bench spokesperson, the hon. Member for Enfield, Southgate (Bambos Charalambous), for joining in the condemnation of the use of the death penalty in Iran. He movingly read out the names of those facing execution, which was a sobering reality check. He raised an interesting question about the safety of the diaspora. Of course, we take all these issues extremely seriously. We continue to monitor and take seriously the activities of cultural centres and anything else in that regard. With regard to sanctions, we strive to exert maximum pressure on anyone associated with the regime through our sanctions regime.

[Dr Huq]

Could the Minister shed light on the technicality of us as Members of Parliament sponsoring people on death row in Iran? I am confused about the technicalities—maybe some guidance could be issued to us. I am also happy to write to him on the tear gas point.

[Leo Docherty]

The Department will write to the hon. Lady on the question of sponsorship and whether or not it is a useful path. I cannot answer that now, I do not know, but we will write.

In conclusion, Iran must abide by the international rules and it must be held to account for its destabilising activity in the region and around the world. The UK will continue to work relentlessly with our international partners to ensure that that happens. We do not know what the political future of Iran looks like; of course, that must be for the people of Iran to decide. However, it is clear that the current leaders have got things very badly wrong. By recklessly blaming everyone but themselves for the anger and unrest, they are destroying their legitimacy—what legitimacy they have left—in the eyes of their own people and the world. We should be clear that there is, of course, a place in the international community for a responsible Iran—one that respects the rights and freedoms of its people. However, for the sake of Iran’s prosperity, security and its future standing in the world, we urge the regime to listen to our calls to release its political prisoners and end these outrageous, deeply deplorable and cruel executions.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Leo Docherty and Rupa Huq

Wednesday 13th July 2022 Commons Chamber

[Leo Docherty]

When the hon. Member sees the formal response to the report, he will have no doubt that we are taking note of these recommendations in absolute earnest. The feedback that I get from young women serving in all roles right across defence is that women should really look forward to service life. There are terrific role models that they can be very proud of.

[Dr Rupa Huq (Ealing Central and Acton) (Lab)]

8. Whether her Department has undertaken an equalities assessment of the exclusion of transgender conversion therapy in the Government’s forthcoming legislative proposals on conversion therapy.

Women in the Armed Forces

Debate between Leo Docherty and Rupa Huq

Thursday 9th December 2021 Westminster Hall

[Sarah Atherton]

You have not mentioned cases of harassment, bullying and discrimination. Are they going to be dealt with within the same process as you just outlined now? Going back to the further point about welfare, am I right in thinking that what you said is that rape cases should primarily be heard within the military jurisdiction because of welfare reasons? We know from our evidence and from visits to Salute Her that women are retraumatised during that process, and that actually only 16% of investigations regarding women who make an accusation of sexual abuse have any forensic evidence. How are you promoting and encouraging welfare by keeping it in that current system?

[Dr Rupa Huq (in the Chair)]

Order. May I just say that the Chairman of Ways and Means, Dame Eleanor Laing, is very hot on people not saying “you”? I know that we are discussing a very sensitive subject. I think the point has been made. Let us all try and avoid the word you in this room.

[Leo Docherty]

Let me be very clear: I am not saying that these cases should be heard in the military system. I am saying that it is right that we have the flexibility of concurrent jurisdiction. I am saying it is conceivable that, for the benefit and the convenience, and therefore the welfare, of a hypothetical victim, hearing a case in the court martial might be appropriate. However, that is, of course, entirely a decision for the civilian prosecutor.

My hon. Friend asked me about bullying, harassment and discrimination. That has not been removed from the chain of command. We still believe this it is about institutionalising a robust response from the chain of command. The chain needs to be part of the solution, not the problem. That is why we keep complaints of bullying, harassment and discrimination within the chain of command system. That is right and proper, because a lot of this is solved by better leadership. It is not about entirely decanting these issues from sub-unit commanders; it is about ensuring that people step up and realise that it is a function of their own professionalism to be able to deal with these sorts of cases.

One way in which the Secretary of State has gone further than the Committee’s recommendations is by requiring career reporting in the formal reports on commanding officers to include their approach to these cases. If a commanding officer goes against or does not fulfil their duty, or receives a complaint from the Service Complaints Ombudsman about a grievance, that should be reflected in the career profile of a person in authority. That is important measure will ensure that, institutionally, everyone has bought into this and is part of the solution, not just the problem.

The hon. Member for South Shields also mentioned service complaints. I was pleased with her reference to Salute Her. I have visited Salute Her, and I acknowledge the important work that it does. The Office for Veterans’ Affairs will be commissioning important research into the experience of women veterans. We look forward to that being announced next week when we formally launch the veterans strategy. I know it will be of particular interest to Salute Her.

My right hon. Friend the Member for Bournemouth East mentioned the importance of recruitment and flexible working. I remember when he was Minister on the Public Bill Committee scrutinising the Armed Forces (Flexible Working) Act 2018. I will write to him with some figures. I do not have figures today, but I do have very positive anecdotal experience of talking to serving females about the benefits of flexible working. He should be very proud of the Bill he took through. Allowing people to drop the kids at school and then do a day’s work in a more flexible way, when operational requirements allow, is of significant personal benefit.

The hon. Member for Glasgow North West mentioned diversity having value, rather than just being a box-ticking exercise. I commend that. As our new Chief of the Defence Staff referred to, this is not about wokefulness. It is about ensuring that we are a highly capable war-fighting machine that can deploy around the world to defeat the nation’s enemies. Diversity is a necessary precondition of that. We cannot afford not to be diverse, because diversity makes us more robust and, in this context, much more lethal.

That plays into the question the hon. Lady asked about how we achieve this cultural shift. It is all about leadership, ultimately. It is about a huge range of technical provisions, some of which I will mention in a minute, but the bottom line is that it has got to be backed up by leadership. Leaders need to be instilling this vision in their people. That plays into some of the questions from the hon. Member for Barnsley East. We are going to deliver this through good military leadership. I should mention that we have accepted 33 and partially accepted four of the Committee’s recommendations, and noted 13 points that are conclusions rather than recommendations.

Let me canter through some of the departmental and institutional improvements that we are getting after. The service chiefs have commissioned a policy review to strengthen the available levers for dismissing or discharging those who are found to have committed sexual offences or unacceptable sexual behaviour. We are developing a new sexual exploitation and abuse policy, which will look at the use of transactional sex workers, for example. We take extremely seriously the overseas context, which has been mentioned, so we are looking at what kinds of policy provision we can put in place for it.

We aim to build trust in the service complaints system and the service justice system through a revised approach to publication of successful service justice sexual offending prosecutions, alongside anonymised service complaint cases, so that women who are serving can see that those issues are taken seriously and that justice is delivered. As I have said, those cases will be taken outside the chain of command, and—this was mentioned in passing —we are very pleased to be delivering the defence serious crimes unit as a mainstay of the Armed Forces Bill.

As I have already mentioned, the Secretary of State is determined that there should be more female representation on courts martial boards. Broader than that, moving from the technical, legalistic provision, it is about ensuring that the broader cultural environment for women serving is satisfactory. We are doing a six-month review to accelerate existing work to deliver a range of new women’s health policies in the workplace, in response to feedback from serving women. The chiefs of staff are leading an urgent six-month review accelerating existing work to address uniform and equipment improvements, which was mentioned by a number of hon. Members. I am pleased to basically, body armour—will be issued by summer next year. So we are cracking on and buying the right equipment for serving women as well as men who happen to be smaller than average. That is good news on body armour.

It is also important to note that we are putting broader lifestyle support measures in place. Flexible service was mentioned. Importantly, with regard to supporting family life, wraparound childcare is now being piloted, and the recent feedback that I have had from members of the Royal Air Force serving in High Wycombe is that it is an absolute game changer in allowing a spouse to work and dramatically improving family cohesion. We look forward to that being rolled out in due course. That is one of the important components of the family strategy that will be formally launched next week. All hon. Members will get a copy of it with a “Dear colleague” letter explaining some of the excellent details. Basically, it puts the service family at the heart of defence and delivers choice and flexibility.

I should say a word about trying to see the positives and reinforcing the fact that service life should be seen as a positive opportunity for women. It is not just about mitigating bad behaviour but about celebrating and reinforcing good behaviour and the amazing array of positive opportunities that come through service. That is all about leadership. As I said, an important component of leadership is how those in authority and leadership positions deal with complaints as well as ensure a work-life balance and inclusive leadership—in other words, acknowledging the needs of the family when possible—at sub-unit level. We seek to empower leaders to help us drive this institutional change. Of course we are trying to regulate bad behaviour, but it is also about inspiring leaders to be part of the delivery mechanism for positive institutional change.

We have an ambition of 30% female inflow, but the bottom line is that we will achieve that only if we have really positive female role models who attract female recruits. Recently, I was pleased to visit the King’s Troop Royal Horse Artillery. I spoke to a range of brilliant service personnel, some of whom had served for 18 years and others for three or four years, and they were unanimous in the message that they love service life. Of course some had critical feedback, and I was pleased to take note of that. They are the sort of individuals who will inspire more females to join and acknowledge that it is an excellent career.

I mentioned the veterans’ charity Salute Her. When we launch the veterans’ strategy next week, we will commit to better understanding the needs of female veterans. That will be extremely important, and we will track that.

I will conclude with role models. As a Department, institutionally we are there to ensure there is a robust and independent service justice system that gives women confidence that they can serve with dignity and thrive in every role—since 2018, every role in the armed forces is open to women. The bottom line is that this kind of institutional change can be brought about only by servicewomen themselves. The best accelerant of the change will be to have brilliant women at the very top of the military, driving forward institutional change and inspiring more women to join and serve. That is why our target is 30%.

I would like to mention three women in particular. The first is Major General Sharon Nesmith of the army recruiting and initial training team; it is people like her who will effect this change. It is also people like Air Vice-Marshal Maria Byford, who is chief of staff personnel and air secretary, and the soon-to-be Rear Admiral Jude Terry, who will be promoted to that rank in August next year. They are role models who will drive positive change. Their own careers show young women who are considering a career in the armed forces that women can serve and thrive in the Army, that they should join, and that they will have a great career and will flourish in the armed forces.

[Dr Rupa Huq (in the Chair)]

The final words of wind-up will come from a fourth role model, Sarah Atherton.