Plant Health and Trade in Animals and Related Products (Amendment) Regulations 2022

Kit Malthouse Excerpts

Wednesday 25th January 2023 General Committees

[Kit Malthouse (North West Hampshire) (Con)]

I have a couple of points of procedure and then some questions, if I may. First, the legislation obviously refers to the amendment of EU regulations, but I have not, I am afraid, been able to get hold of those regulations, so it is quite hard for me to understand the amendments being made. Normally, one would expect such regulations to be available in the room.

Secondly, I do not know whether this is usual, but from reading the legislation over the past couple of days, I see that a section of it is understandably in Welsh. Although it may be appropriate for the legislation to be in that language, I am at a loss to know what it says. Section 6, which is in Welsh, may be a faithful reproduction of section 5, which is in English, but I cannot tell whether that is the case. There may be a Member present who is able to translate it quickly and tell us, but I do not know whether it is usual to vote on legislation that is in a language I do not understand; I have not done that before, as far as I am aware.

Those questions are for you as Chair, Mrs Cummins—

[Alun Cairns (Vale of Glamorgan) (Con)]

Will my right hon. Friend give way?

[Kit Malthouse]

By all means.

[Alun Cairns]

Diolch yn fawr—[Laughter.] I can reassure my right hon. Friend that section 6 is a duplication of the English version.

[Kit Malthouse]

I am grateful for that reassurance. We are fortunate on the Committee in having a native speaker of that fine, although for me incomprehensible, language. If my right hon. Friend had not been here, Members may have found themselves in some difficulty with the legislation.

I have some questions for the Minister. I understand that the intention of these imposed regulations is for Ministers to be able to demarcate an area to allow for disease control. At the moment, in my constituency, I am living in the middle of one of those areas, which is to deal with avian flu—although the demarcation seems to be some road signs and not much else. Owners of chickens have been told to keep them indoors, and that type of thing. What I am unclear about is, while Ministers have the power to introduce those zones, how would they actually give effect to them? Is it a purely ministerial discretion? Is there a bar of disease and infection that needs to be reached? Is it on advice from some body? Similarly, on removal, where is the judgment made and by who? Obviously, it is quite a draconian power in certain circumstances. Having some kind of understanding of how it might be executed would be helpful. I could not find anything in the legislation or the guidance notes that told me that.

I also want to explore the issue about Lebanese potatoes, which seems to be of particular interest. I understand that verticillium wilt is prevalent in the Bekaa valley and is of some concern. But my reading of the legislation is that there is essentially an absolute bar on the import of potatoes from that country, which is currently struggling and for which the agricultural sector is a huge earner.

I had some difficulty understanding that—it may just be me being thick. Could the Minister explain to me what the impact of that is on the seed potato industry from those two regions of Lebanon, or whether it is a general Lebanese exclusion? Other than those points, I am broadly content to support the regulations.

[The Chair]

Thank you for those questions. I can give assurances that the specific regulation is in the Committee Room, but the Clerk is checking. I hope to have an absolute assurance by the time the Minister has finished his concluding remarks.

[Mark Spencer]

That sounded like a challenge to speak quickly, Ms Cummins. I thank colleagues for their interest in this SI, and for taking the trouble to read it and engage. My right hon. Friend the Member for North West Hampshire raised the question about how those decisions are made. We are blessed in the UK with some of the best scientists in the world, who are able to make an analysis of what the risks are and what the response should be. Of course, Ministers will ultimately decide on the response, but on the back of the advice they receive from those experts.

Action would be something along the lines of stopping the trade in the material that was at risk of spreading the disease. For example, the Opposition asked about the actual disease that has highlighted this challenge; it is actually called phytophthora pluvialis. In English—I think that might be Welsh—it is a fungus that affects trees, mostly pines and Douglas firs. What we would do in those circumstances, and what we have done, is prevent the movement of timber of that nature. We would put restrictions on nurseries and wholesale plant areas, but also on physical timber that was being moved from woodland in a certain area to another. We would prevent the movement of that to stop the disease spreading, so that fungus spores were not allowed to be transported anywhere else.

The hon. Member for Cambridge also made reference to the challenges of ensuring that our borders are safe in the future. That is something that the Government are very much alive to. I spend a lot of time, for example, worrying about the possibility of African swine fever spreading across Europe and reaching our borders. We have protocols in place to try to stop that from happening, which is actually one of the benefits of Brexit. It allows us to put more controls at our borders to try to prevent that from happening and to ensure that Border Force is aware of the challenges that we face. But, of course, we try to balance that with ensuring that trade is as free as possible. Working with our colleagues in Europe, we are able to strike that balance, but it is one that we take seriously.

[Kit Malthouse]

I am grateful to the Minister for giving way. I take his point. Obviously, there has been a phytosanitary boundary around the whole of the island of Ireland for some time now, which has protected it from diseases coming from the continent of Europe, the wider world and indeed the rest of the UK. However, my constituency, for example, is being devastated by ash dieback. We have hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of ash trees that are struggling and will be gone from the landscape quite soon.

While I understand the scientific advice that will be given, that is the same scientific advice, presumably, that resulted in the awful foot and mouth disaster that hit farming a couple of decades ago, which people remember well. Mounds of carcases were burnt on farms. Whether that was the right approach has been debated, even to this day.

Is the Minister able to give an example of a plant or animal disease being controlled by the imposition of one of these zones in the past, and therefore being eradicated from the UK? It strikes me that what we are learning—whether from Dutch elm disease, ash dieback, avian flu, or even tuberculosis, which we are obviously trying to control—is that these techniques are actually not that effective from a disease control point of view. As the Minister said, our most effective defence is at the border, by stopping the stuff coming in in the first place.

[Mark Spencer]

The best example that I can think of within two or three generations would be anthrax. We were able to eradicate that completely from the United Kingdom. However, of course, it is about not just eradication but mitigation, in terms of stopping that spread.

My right hon. Friend mentioned avian influenza. Of course, had we taken no measures and just allowed the disease to run its course, that would have led to the total devastation of the UK poultry sector and enormous damage to the wild bird population. While it sometimes appears that we are not having the positive effect that we would like to deliver, taking no action would lead to catastrophe. I think there are examples of where stepping in, and intervening at that moment does assist and does lead to better outcomes, although it may not feel like that at the time.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mark Spencer]

That is a fantastic, positive story, and I thank the hon. Gentleman for his intervention. In conclusion—

[Kit Malthouse]

Lebanese potatoes?

[Mark Spencer]

Lebanese potatoes, of course. We take such things case by case, and will continue to take that approach. There are some challenges in the seed potato market, not least to the ability of Scottish growers to export to the EU. We will continue to push that agenda as well, to ensure that the Scots can export seed potatoes. Decisions on whether we allow the import of seed potatoes will have to be taken on a case-by-case basis and with a risk analysis of the risk to UK growers. Decisions will be taken by those with the expertise, but we recognise the importance of trade links with Lebanon.

In conclusion, this is an important piece of legislation and it is important that we agree the draft regulations today. They will help to fight disease and to prevent disasters in future. I am grateful for the Committee’s support.