Pride Month

Debate between Kirsten Oswald and Martin Docherty-Hughes

Thursday 15th June 2023 Commons Chamber

[Kirsten Oswald (East Renfrewshire) (SNP)]

I am really grateful to be able to sum up this debate for my party. It is always a privilege to do that. I feel fortunate to have listened to all the contributions today, which have been powerful and important, not least the opening speeches from the hon. Members for Carshalton and Wallington (Elliot Colburn) and for Wallasey (Dame Angela Eagle). The personal reflections we have heard today were exceptional. The speech by the hon. Member for Darlington (Peter Gibson) was full of warmth. I, too, wish a happy 15th anniversary to him and Gareth—I am glad he repeated the name because I nearly wished a happy anniversary to him and Richard, which would have caused some confusion in that household.

My hon. Friend the Member for West Dunbartonshire (Martin Docherty-Hughes) gave a powerful look back. That was important as we reflect on where we are now. The hon. Member for Warrington North (Charlotte Nichols) was on point when we heard why we should aim for “supportive indifference” for everyone. That is where we need to get to. We are not there yet, which is why need to reflect on Pride, more than 50 years on. We must remember that it was conceived not as a parade, fabulous though Pride parades are, but as a protest and that the necessity for protest remains.

There is much to be positive about today, but we cannot shy away from the real concerns that exist, too. I will start on a positive note. The powerful contributions we heard about social change over decades were important. The fact we have a cross-party group of people here in the Chamber today making contributions who are all on the same track is important.

On a personal level, it is important to me to be a member of a party that has equality and LGBT rights front and centre. I thank Out for Independence for the work it does as our LGBT wing in the SNP. That work is important because, as we have heard, we all have work to do. It matters to me because I want to live in a fairer, more equal, independent Scotland, and celebrating our LGBT communities must be central to that. We have made real progress already in Scotland. My hon. Friend the Member for West Dunbartonshire has talked about the journey we have come on, with the Scottish Government’s work on non-binary identities, human rights, hate crime, LGBT health and gender reform. The commitment to LGBT lives being improved runs through the work of our Government. It is clear in the welcome commitment that the Scottish Government have made to ending conversion practices. I hope the Minister has something positive to say to us on that because, clearly, everyone should feel secure to be themselves; they should have no fear, no worry, about being themselves. The harm that is caused by this delay is immense. I heard the Leader of the House at business questions this morning describing conversion practices as “appalling” and I agree with that. That is why we need to see progress —it has been years and years—and the progress needs to be inclusive. It cannot have a consent loophole. It cannot leave out trans people.

That depressing note was echoed in what my hon. Friend the Member for West Dunbartonshire said about the UK Government’s determination to ride roughshod over the cross-party votes of the Scottish Parliament in relation to gender recognition reform. The people who are affected by this are already potentially the most vulnerable and marginalised. They are not there to be a constitutional football. This measure was introduced after huge and significant consultation. I thought the comments earlier about the importance of adopting a respectful tone are absolutely right. I always aim to do that. The principle of respect is crucial, and that has run through the work that has been done.

For me, LGBT rights go hand in hand with all our rights. This is definitely not the first time I have said this—it is not even the first time that I have said it this week—but I think it is worth saying again: I am a middle-aged woman and a feminist and my rights as a woman are in no way imperilled or in conflict with my support for LGBT rights.

One issue that has been spoken about quite a lot today is education—supporting all young people to recognise, positively, that we are all different, and that families come in many and various forms. That is a far cry from my own school days in the 1980s. I mentioned earlier this week that my own large high school, although a decent school, had no LGBT pupils in the 1980s; obviously that is not true. Obviously, there were many, but you would not have known because we could not talk about those things in those days. The hon. Member for Darlington spoke in a similar tone about his own school days. I am very grateful that things are different now. I know that, in my constituency of East Renfrewshire, our schools do a fantastic job on this. I am very grateful for the care and attention they give to all our young people. A special mention should be made—because I have been there most recently, but all the schools do a very good job— of the thoughtful and open way that LGBT education is managed in Mearns Castle High School. It does a fantastic job of making it a normal part of school life that everyone is celebrated and regarded as important. So hats off to them.

[Martin Docherty-Hughes]

On that point, there has been a huge change in the Scottish education system, not only in non-denominational schools, but even in denominational schools. The Catholic Bishops’ Conference of Scotland accepted the recommendations of the Time for Inclusive Education campaign. We have come a long way, have we not?

[Kirsten Oswald]

My hon. Friend has obviously read my speech. We have indeed come a long way. I want to talk about the TIE campaign, which does such a good job. It is particularly important that we speak about this today, given some of the contributions that we have heard. The TIE campaign delivers LGBT inclusive education training. It supports teachers to develop their own curriculum materials in this area and facilitates teaching and learning about prejudice, discrimination and diverse families. It looks at past and present LGBT figures. It does that to support our schools in developing a greater understanding of diversity within our communities and within wider society.

Obviously, the knock-on impact for pupils in terms of their rights, their knowledge about equality, the impact of stereotyping and prejudice is immense. That matters because education is so vital in preventing hatred based on ignorance. We need to look at some of the statistics that we have heard today to put that in context. The Rainbow Europe statistics for 2022 showed the UK dropping from 10th to 14th place over only one year. There is no doubt in my mind that the climate in which we all live is, in many ways, that bit less accepting and that bit more fragile for our LGBT communities.

Hate crime statistics back that up. There has been a significant and continued rise in hate crime figures in the UK—and in Scotland, too—against LGBT people. The hon. Member for Carshalton and Wallington put that really well.

Of course, as we have heard today, this is not an issue that is only particular to us here. Undoubtedly, across the world, dark clouds are gathering. We have heard about the Anti-Homosexuality Bill in Uganda and anti-LGBT measures in Florida and other states. Reports there suggest considerable increases in hostility and practical difficulties for people just trying to live their lives. Notably, there is hostility in Rwanda. That is a particular cause for concern, given that this Government are determined to send people seeking asylum in the UK to Rwanda, despite the UK Government’s own travel advice warning against LGBT people travelling to Rwanda.

The right hon. Member for Exeter (Mr Bradshaw) talked very eloquently about the culture wars, which do so much harm, and which, absolutely, must be resisted here. I would say that culture wars have absolutely no place in our politics. None of us should be engaging in or amplifying that kind of discourse. My hon. Friend the Member for West Dunbartonshire spoke very powerfully about the funding of hate and the funding of these campaigns. Our responsibility here in this place is to stand up and shine a light.

Therefore, we do have a particular responsibility in this place. We have a responsibility to speak up as well as to celebrate. I do not think that I can put that better than the First Minister Humza Yousaf. He was speaking when the UK Government decided to block the Gender Recognition Reform Bill. He said:

“I am firmly committed to equality for everybody because your rights are my rights regardless of who you are…My starting point is that I’ve been a minority in this country my whole life. I have understood that you have to fight for your rights, but my rights don’t exist in a vacuum or in isolation. They exist because other people’s rights exist too.”

We all live in a better place when we all actively stand up for all of our communities.

I want to conclude on a positive note. I wish a happy Pride to all those in Scotland and across the UK and further afield who will be on Pride parades this month. It was good to hear from the hon. Member for Merthyr Tydfil and Rhymney (Gerald Jones) about the first Pride parade in his area. The hon. Member for Brighton, Kemptown (Lloyd Russell-Moyle) painted quite a fabulous picture of various Pride events. A number of years ago, I took my children on a Pride march. It is fair to say that they had a really good day. In fact, one of them requested to go again the next day, which, obviously, was not possible, but I hope—perhaps against my own expectation—that that spirit of celebrating and of welcoming progress is the direction of travel that we see this year. Happy Pride Month.

Type 26 Frigates: Clyde

Debate between Kirsten Oswald and Martin Docherty-Hughes

Tuesday 18th October 2016 Westminster Hall

[Martin Docherty-Hughes]

I certainly do agree with my hon. Friend. That small northern European nation seems far more capable of defending its territorial waters and meetings its obligations to NATO than the United Kingdom.

Amazingly, despite long-standing knowledge of the Kuznetsov’s deployment, and it coming as NATO’s largest annual exercise is taking place in Scotland, the Government have been able to rustle up only one Type 23 frigate and one Type 45 destroyer to escort the carrier group through the UK’s exclusive economic zone, meaning that were the group to split, there would be no way of keeping tabs on the largest ships in the Russian navy. Quite simply, the ageing Type 23 fleet cannot keep pace with the growing number of tasks put forward for it. The understandable challenges of dealing with a 35-year-old platform have led to worrying gaps in the Royal Navy’s most basic capabilities, whether that is the designated fleet ready escort being neither a frigate nor a destroyer, or the frequent and worrying absence of a UK vessel from the NATO standing maritime group in the north Atlantic.

The Government’s contention that a smaller fleet can be justified by increasing versatility can be met only by proceeding with the Type 26 programme. These are highly capable, versatile, multi-mission warships that would give the Royal Navy the capabilities it needs. Talk about the United Kingdom offering NATO a world-class anti-submarine warfare capability sounds hollow when we do not invest in the primary platform to undertake that, and when investment in other platforms—whether that is the carriers or the Poseidon P-8 maritime patrol aircraft—is called into question because a fundamental part of their support network has been put at risk.

When the Minister responds to the debate, I hope to hear a real commitment to a timetable for cutting steel on the ships, as well as their expected in-service dates.

[Kirsten Oswald (East Renfrewshire) (SNP)]

Does my hon. Friend agree that the delay in giving such a guarantee is an utter betrayal of the workers on the Clyde? It really calls into question both the UK Government’s commitment to conventional defence capability in Scotland and where their priorities truly lie.

[Martin Docherty-Hughes]

I certainly cannot disagree with my hon. Friend.

UN Peacekeeping Week 2016

Debate between Kirsten Oswald and Martin Docherty-Hughes

Tuesday 7th June 2016 Westminster Hall

[Kirsten Oswald (East Renfrewshire) (SNP)]

I beg to move,

That this House has considered UN Peacekeeping Week 2016.

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairship, Mr Pritchard, and it is a privilege to have secured a debate on United Nations peacekeeping in a week when British troops have arrived in South Sudan as part of a UN peacekeeping mission.

[Mr Philip Hollobone in the Chair]

UN peacekeeping began in 1948, when the Security Council authorised the deployment of UN military observers to the middle east. The mission’s role was to monitor the armistice agreement between Israel and its Arab neighbours. Since then the UN has undertaken 69 peacekeeping operations, and at present there are 16 peacekeeping operations under way across the world, with troops deployed in Africa, Asia, Europe, the Americas and the middle east. In the years since 1948, hundreds of thousands of military personnel, along with tens of thousands of UN police and civilian support workers, from more than 120 countries, have taken part in UN peacekeeping operations.

The International Day of UN Peacekeepers was on 29 May, and last week was UN Peacekeeping Week. Those events were established to honour the memory of UN peacekeepers who have lost their lives in the cause of peace and to pay tribute to all those who have served, and who continue to serve, in UN peacekeeping operations for their high level of professionalism, dedication and courage.

I was at the Cenotaph on 25 May, along with my hon. Friend the Member for Stirling (Steven Paterson) and other Members of this House, to attend the UN peacekeepers memorial ceremony and commemorate more than 3,400 peacekeepers from some 120 countries who have died from acts of violence, accidents or disease while serving under the UN flag. It was striking to see the variety of nations represented at the ceremony; it was a clear illustration of the global nature of peacekeeping and of the danger facing those who enter challenging situations to support peace and a better future.

The group at the Cenotaph commemorating the lives of those who had died was diverse in many ways, which reflects the profile of the peacekeepers themselves. Six women lead peacekeeping missions across the world. In Cyprus, Kristin Lund is the first woman to be a force commander. It was positive to hear about the recent proposals by the UN for Scotland to provide support for the training of female Syrian peacekeepers, which illustrates the importance of engaging as widely as possible in the name of peace.

Peacekeeping is truly a global concern. Many of the 193 member states of the UN have contributed personnel, equipment or funds in support of the common goal of peace. In March 2015, 128 nations were contributing troops, police or civilian support personnel to the UN. The 2015 leaders summit heard about the 125,000 peacekeepers who are deployed across the globe.

The principles that underpin the operation of UN peacekeeping require the deployment of UN peacekeepers to happen only with the consent of the main parties involved in a conflict. Those parties must commit to a political process, and that consent and commitment give the UN the freedom to act politically and physically to undertake a peacekeeping operation in a situation where there may be significant instability.

[Martin Docherty-Hughes (West Dunbartonshire) (SNP)]

Does my hon. Friend agree that the brave members of the armed forces who get involved in the UN peacekeeping forces do so out of a commitment to world peace and stability, and that they are truly an inspiration to all of us?

[Kirsten Oswald]

I thank my hon. Friend for that intervention. He makes an important point that we must reflect on, namely that the people who go and serve in dangerous situations in pursuit of peace are very brave and deserve our admiration.

The idea that UN peacekeepers are impartial is also vital for them to continue to receive support from the parties involved in a conflict, which cannot be underestimated. A study by the RAND Corporation found that deploying peacekeepers reduces the risk of a country sliding back into all-out war by 50%. Of course, there can be genuine difficulty in maintaining impartiality when the peacekeepers are called upon to act in one direction or another. Often, UN peacekeeping missions have to perform a dual role, providing the agreed impartiality but also the robustness required to stand up for what is right for agreements, international law and human rights. That is highly challenging, but UN peacekeepers deal with such situations every day.

Armed Forces Bill

Debate between Kirsten Oswald and Martin Docherty-Hughes

Wednesday 16th December 2015 Commons Chamber

[Martin John Docherty]

I associate SNP Members with the comments of the hon. Member for North Durham (Mr Jones) about the redundancy of this provision. On a personal level, I am shocked that it is still there and that homosexual members of the armed forces should be seen differently from heterosexual members of the armed forces who might be having sexual relations. Strangely enough, that seems to be a human element of sexual relations: they happen to people, whether they be homosexual or heterosexual, and no law is going to prohibit that. I want to ensure that the hon. Gentleman recognises that those on the SNP Benches fully support the new clause. We hope that the Minister will again reflect on what has been said and seek a way to take this forward.

[Kirsten Oswald]

I agree entirely with the comments of my hon. Friend. It was positive in the Select Committee to hear the universal support for the repeal of this archaic and discriminatory provision. I understand that the current law has not actually been enforced for many years, and I realise that repealing the provision is out of scope for us today. However, I join my hon. Friend and the hon. Member for North Durham (Mr Jones) in urging the Government to find a way to deal with the issue, and to do so with some urgency. It is unacceptable that, albeit unused, this provision remains. In 2015, we are better than that as a society, and our armed forces deserve the framework they operate within to reflect that and the fact that the provision is unacceptable and derogatory.

Armed Drones

Debate between Kirsten Oswald and Martin Docherty-Hughes

Tuesday 1st December 2015 Westminster Hall

[Martin John Docherty (West Dunbartonshire) (SNP)]

It is an honour to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Stringer, in this timely and critical debate on the rules of engagement and use of armed drones. I am sure all Members here will agree that the right hon. Member for Haltemprice and Howden (Mr Davis) and members of the all-party group on drones have ensured an in-depth and robust debate on matters of ethics, morality and fundamentally political choice.

My hon. Friend the Member for East Renfrewshire (Kirsten Oswald), the right hon. Member for Haltemprice and Howden and others who have participated in the debate have made a convincing case for further debate, scrutiny and holding the Government to account for the political choices they make in deciding the role of the state in surveillance and in ending lives, especially the lives of UK citizens living in other countries. I take the point made by the hon. Member for Cardiff West (Kevin Brennan) about future drone use and, as mentioned by others, their use by extremists and criminals. That needs to be looked at in depth to perhaps inform future policy.

As has been outlined, for some Members, the present lack of information relating to the rules of engagement leaves much to be desired, and for many it highlights our inability to comply with international human rights law—critically, particularly with regard to seeking to understand whether the European convention on human rights applies when physical power and control is exercised over a person via an automated vehicle controlled by a UK citizen. This is exacerbated, as was mentioned, by the Secretary of State’s lack of response to the Joint Committee on Human Rights. If the Secretary of State were able to attend the Committee, we could perhaps get a resolution and some clarity. I am sure that the Minister will wish to address that when she responds.

The efficiency of the present systems is an important issue. In some cases in the past decade in Afghanistan, drones did not hit their target. Given the increase in the use of drones in Afghanistan under the leadership of President Obama, this must surely throw into doubt their efficiency, and the ability of Government policy to limit the power of extremists at home and abroad, both now and in future. The Government’s present approach could arouse feelings of anger and lead to local populations coalescing around extremists, rather than removing them from the overall picture.

Fundamentally, this physical disengagement—the move from traditional warfare in the field, mentioned by my hon. Friend the Member for East Renfrewshire, to being based in a bunker thousands of miles away—is a Pandora’s box that has been opened and will not be shut. If in the weeks and days ahead we find ourselves involved in an aerial bombardment over Syria, the use of drones, not only in surveillance but in the delivery of hardware, will be a military choice, not a political one.

The need for at least a statement or summary on the legal use of drones and supporting rules of engagement need to be published, as well as a definition of areas of operation. Now more than ever, my constituents—I am sure that I speak for my hon. Friend the Member for East Renfrewshire, too—seek a detailed policy and operational guidelines. We accept that those guidelines should recognise the security implications for our armed forces.

In addition, we hope that the Government will clarify the use of civilian operators and their possible role in delivering ordnance to the end point—that is, in using the firing button—in present and future operations. We also hope that mental health will be considered. In a recent Adjournment debate, we discussed mental health and the impact on veterans, military personnel and their children.

The Government must clarify our limitations. In which countries do we use drones? Will we become another United States, targeting countries such as Pakistan? If we do, we must consider the ramifications for some of our partners—including, critically, the Commonwealth family—and their relationship with the UK. Holding the Government to account requires us to have the ability to ensure that evidence is challenged and proven, and that includes the ability to prove the effectiveness of drones in military use.

I have a feeling that no matter the number of deaths, civilian or otherwise, the use of drones will continue and increase. In the light of that, will the Government consider that recent research has revealed that over the past 10 years, 61% of CIA air strikes have hit domestic buildings?

[Kirsten Oswald]

It is crucial that drone strikes are made with the utmost accuracy if they are to take place, and civilian casualties must be avoided. Is my hon. Friend aware of cases such as that of Fahd al-Quso, who was killed apparently in Yemen and Pakistan? Similarly, there are others who have been targeted by the United States who have apparently been killed several times. What assessment does my hon. Friend make of that in relation to accuracy and reporting?

[Martin John Docherty]

I am grateful for my hon. Friend’s intervention. Her point recognises the limitations on intelligence. I will cover that in a moment.

An estimated 222 civilians have been killed in United States strikes, including the American and Italian hostages killed in recent drone strikes in compounds. The use of drones without robust and accountable rules of engagement removes not one additional extremist or terrorist, but acts as a recruiting sergeant for the most heinous of blood cults. The present policy of power to kill anyone anywhere in the world without oversight or safeguards is a failed strategy that perpetuates the illusion that military force is effective in combating extremists.

Military Personnel and Veterans (Children and Young Carers)

Debate between Kirsten Oswald and Martin Docherty-Hughes

Tuesday 3rd November 2015 Commons Chamber

[Martin John Docherty]

I would welcome any local authority doing that and am grateful for the fact that all 32 councils of Scotland have taken the step to become either veterans champions or to promote the issue of veterans. I can commend that every council and borough, district or local, within the countries of England, Wales and Northern Ireland follows suit.

Research looks at a multitude of pre and post-combative effects on the health of service personnel, including post-traumatic stress disorder, pre-deployment stress, mental health, reintegration and the military family—that is for a spouse or partner. Again, there is limited literature in the UK on the issues faced by military children and young people and even less on military children and young people in a caring role.

The Ministry of Defence estimates that there are around 120,000 military children and young people both overseas and here in the UK, although the figures do not state whether they are “full-time” military children and young people or whether they include the children and young people of those who are in the military reserves—an increasingly important element of the UK’s military capabilities.

[Kirsten Oswald (East Renfrewshire) (SNP)]

This is a complex and important issue. Does my hon. Friend agree that it is vital that we also consider the issues of service personnel who have been made redundant and the impact of that on their families and children?

[Martin John Docherty]

My hon. Friend raises yet another complexity of the issue—the impact of military life on children and, critically, those service personnel who have been made redundant, as many have in recent years. I can only hope the Minister will take that on board in his response to the debate.

On the published figures, these children and young people represent 10% of the UK’s under-18 population, which is a substantial amount. Mental health research shows that child and adolescent mental health conditions are in truth common for all children and young people—that is true of both military and non-military children and young people. Office for National Statistics records from 2013 indicate that in the UK there are 13.6 million children and young people. YoungMinds has identified that mental health issues affect between 10% and 20% of all children and young people in the UK. Furthermore, these statistics show that 12% of five to 16-year-olds have a diagnosed mental health condition, with conduct disorder nearing 7% and emotional disorders being 5%.