Pride Month

Kirsten Oswald Excerpts

Thursday 15th June 2023 Commons Chamber

[Kirsten Oswald (East Renfrewshire) (SNP)]

I am really grateful to be able to sum up this debate for my party. It is always a privilege to do that. I feel fortunate to have listened to all the contributions today, which have been powerful and important, not least the opening speeches from the hon. Members for Carshalton and Wallington (Elliot Colburn) and for Wallasey (Dame Angela Eagle). The personal reflections we have heard today were exceptional. The speech by the hon. Member for Darlington (Peter Gibson) was full of warmth. I, too, wish a happy 15th anniversary to him and Gareth—I am glad he repeated the name because I nearly wished a happy anniversary to him and Richard, which would have caused some confusion in that household.

My hon. Friend the Member for West Dunbartonshire (Martin Docherty-Hughes) gave a powerful look back. That was important as we reflect on where we are now. The hon. Member for Warrington North (Charlotte Nichols) was on point when we heard why we should aim for “supportive indifference” for everyone. That is where we need to get to. We are not there yet, which is why need to reflect on Pride, more than 50 years on. We must remember that it was conceived not as a parade, fabulous though Pride parades are, but as a protest and that the necessity for protest remains.

There is much to be positive about today, but we cannot shy away from the real concerns that exist, too. I will start on a positive note. The powerful contributions we heard about social change over decades were important. The fact we have a cross-party group of people here in the Chamber today making contributions who are all on the same track is important.

On a personal level, it is important to me to be a member of a party that has equality and LGBT rights front and centre. I thank Out for Independence for the work it does as our LGBT wing in the SNP. That work is important because, as we have heard, we all have work to do. It matters to me because I want to live in a fairer, more equal, independent Scotland, and celebrating our LGBT communities must be central to that. We have made real progress already in Scotland. My hon. Friend the Member for West Dunbartonshire has talked about the journey we have come on, with the Scottish Government’s work on non-binary identities, human rights, hate crime, LGBT health and gender reform. The commitment to LGBT lives being improved runs through the work of our Government. It is clear in the welcome commitment that the Scottish Government have made to ending conversion practices. I hope the Minister has something positive to say to us on that because, clearly, everyone should feel secure to be themselves; they should have no fear, no worry, about being themselves. The harm that is caused by this delay is immense. I heard the Leader of the House at business questions this morning describing conversion practices as “appalling” and I agree with that. That is why we need to see progress —it has been years and years—and the progress needs to be inclusive. It cannot have a consent loophole. It cannot leave out trans people.

That depressing note was echoed in what my hon. Friend the Member for West Dunbartonshire said about the UK Government’s determination to ride roughshod over the cross-party votes of the Scottish Parliament in relation to gender recognition reform. The people who are affected by this are already potentially the most vulnerable and marginalised. They are not there to be a constitutional football. This measure was introduced after huge and significant consultation. I thought the comments earlier about the importance of adopting a respectful tone are absolutely right. I always aim to do that. The principle of respect is crucial, and that has run through the work that has been done.

For me, LGBT rights go hand in hand with all our rights. This is definitely not the first time I have said this—it is not even the first time that I have said it this week—but I think it is worth saying again: I am a middle-aged woman and a feminist and my rights as a woman are in no way imperilled or in conflict with my support for LGBT rights.

One issue that has been spoken about quite a lot today is education—supporting all young people to recognise, positively, that we are all different, and that families come in many and various forms. That is a far cry from my own school days in the 1980s. I mentioned earlier this week that my own large high school, although a decent school, had no LGBT pupils in the 1980s; obviously that is not true. Obviously, there were many, but you would not have known because we could not talk about those things in those days. The hon. Member for Darlington spoke in a similar tone about his own school days. I am very grateful that things are different now. I know that, in my constituency of East Renfrewshire, our schools do a fantastic job on this. I am very grateful for the care and attention they give to all our young people. A special mention should be made—because I have been there most recently, but all the schools do a very good job— of the thoughtful and open way that LGBT education is managed in Mearns Castle High School. It does a fantastic job of making it a normal part of school life that everyone is celebrated and regarded as important. So hats off to them.

[Martin Docherty-Hughes]

On that point, there has been a huge change in the Scottish education system, not only in non-denominational schools, but even in denominational schools. The Catholic Bishops’ Conference of Scotland accepted the recommendations of the Time for Inclusive Education campaign. We have come a long way, have we not?

[Kirsten Oswald]

My hon. Friend has obviously read my speech. We have indeed come a long way. I want to talk about the TIE campaign, which does such a good job. It is particularly important that we speak about this today, given some of the contributions that we have heard. The TIE campaign delivers LGBT inclusive education training. It supports teachers to develop their own curriculum materials in this area and facilitates teaching and learning about prejudice, discrimination and diverse families. It looks at past and present LGBT figures. It does that to support our schools in developing a greater understanding of diversity within our communities and within wider society.

Obviously, the knock-on impact for pupils in terms of their rights, their knowledge about equality, the impact of stereotyping and prejudice is immense. That matters because education is so vital in preventing hatred based on ignorance. We need to look at some of the statistics that we have heard today to put that in context. The Rainbow Europe statistics for 2022 showed the UK dropping from 10th to 14th place over only one year. There is no doubt in my mind that the climate in which we all live is, in many ways, that bit less accepting and that bit more fragile for our LGBT communities.

Hate crime statistics back that up. There has been a significant and continued rise in hate crime figures in the UK—and in Scotland, too—against LGBT people. The hon. Member for Carshalton and Wallington put that really well.

Of course, as we have heard today, this is not an issue that is only particular to us here. Undoubtedly, across the world, dark clouds are gathering. We have heard about the Anti-Homosexuality Bill in Uganda and anti-LGBT measures in Florida and other states. Reports there suggest considerable increases in hostility and practical difficulties for people just trying to live their lives. Notably, there is hostility in Rwanda. That is a particular cause for concern, given that this Government are determined to send people seeking asylum in the UK to Rwanda, despite the UK Government’s own travel advice warning against LGBT people travelling to Rwanda.

The right hon. Member for Exeter (Mr Bradshaw) talked very eloquently about the culture wars, which do so much harm, and which, absolutely, must be resisted here. I would say that culture wars have absolutely no place in our politics. None of us should be engaging in or amplifying that kind of discourse. My hon. Friend the Member for West Dunbartonshire spoke very powerfully about the funding of hate and the funding of these campaigns. Our responsibility here in this place is to stand up and shine a light.

Therefore, we do have a particular responsibility in this place. We have a responsibility to speak up as well as to celebrate. I do not think that I can put that better than the First Minister Humza Yousaf. He was speaking when the UK Government decided to block the Gender Recognition Reform Bill. He said:

“I am firmly committed to equality for everybody because your rights are my rights regardless of who you are…My starting point is that I’ve been a minority in this country my whole life. I have understood that you have to fight for your rights, but my rights don’t exist in a vacuum or in isolation. They exist because other people’s rights exist too.”

We all live in a better place when we all actively stand up for all of our communities.

I want to conclude on a positive note. I wish a happy Pride to all those in Scotland and across the UK and further afield who will be on Pride parades this month. It was good to hear from the hon. Member for Merthyr Tydfil and Rhymney (Gerald Jones) about the first Pride parade in his area. The hon. Member for Brighton, Kemptown (Lloyd Russell-Moyle) painted quite a fabulous picture of various Pride events. A number of years ago, I took my children on a Pride march. It is fair to say that they had a really good day. In fact, one of them requested to go again the next day, which, obviously, was not possible, but I hope—perhaps against my own expectation—that that spirit of celebrating and of welcoming progress is the direction of travel that we see this year. Happy Pride Month.

--- Later in debate ---

[Stuart Andrew]

As I have said, I share my hon. Friend’s frustration. If I have my way, it will be very shortly.

[Kirsten Oswald]

Will the Minister give way?

[Stuart Andrew]

I am conscious of time, but yes.

[Kirsten Oswald]

I am grateful to the Minister. Very briefly, I wonder if he is able to elaborate on what the scope of the Bill—which we hope will come very soon—might be.

[Stuart Andrew]

I want to make clear that the Bill will include targeting efforts to change someone from being transgender—that will be in there. I am also pleased to remind the House that the Government fund a victim support service run by the anti-violence charity Galop, which enables those at risk of, or undergoing, conversion practices to report their situation and access tailored support and guidance. I have been to visit that group—it really is very moving—and I continue to urge anyone in need of help in this area to contact that support service.

Today, many Members have also talked about the issues around transgender rights in this country. I must be absolutely clear: transgender people deserve our respect, support and understanding. Members have quite rightly talked about dialling down the arguments. We can have a debate that listens carefully to the considered opinions of both sides of the argument—and let us understand both those sides—but hatred has no place. I hate seeing the impact that this has on some people in our country. Courtesy and respect are not hard things to practise— I simply do not understand it. As the hon. Member for Wallasey said, empathy does not cost anything, and as my hon. Friend the Member for Darlington mentioned, it is a reminder of the fear that many of us went through all those decades ago. I really do believe that we need to make sure we have this debate in a proper and dignified way, and I certainly commit that in any debate I take part in, I will always show respect to anyone, regardless of what their opinions are.

I also wanted to talk about some of the health areas that have been raised by other Members, particularly some of the issues relating to our campaign on HIV. We have made great steps in that area, as in other areas of LGBT healthcare. The published HIV plan, pledging a goal of zero new HIV transmissions and zero AIDS and HIV-related deaths in England by 2030, is to be welcomed. I am glad to say that the data tells us that we are on track to achieve that, which is good news.

Another area that Members raised in the course of the debate is RSE. Children need to understand the modern world in which they are growing up. Guidance is clear that pupils receive teaching of LGBT content. In secondary education, sexual orientation and gender identity are talked about and explored, but at a timely point, as my hon. Friend the Member for Cities of London and Westminster (Nickie Aiken) mentioned, and in a clear, sensitive and respectful manner. The Department for Education is currently reviewing that, and public consultation will take place in the autumn. The advice within it will have been led by an independent expert panel bringing together health, the curriculum and safeguarding.

I am glad that Members raised the issue of homelessness, because it is important for me personally. I remember when I lived in Manchester hearing the shocking story of a young man who was kicked out of his family home because of his sexuality. He had no choice but to end up as a sex worker, and he was sadly murdered by one of the people who was abusing him. I am therefore keen that we do something about it. In May, I convened a roundtable with the Minister with responsibility for homelessness, my hon. Friend the Member for Kensington (Felicity Buchan), to bring together local authorities from around the country and the charity sector so that we could explore best practice and the importance of collecting data. The more data we have, the more we will know about the situation.

On the issue of LGBT veterans, we recognise the experience of many of those who wanted to serve our country and who were putting themselves forward and putting their own lives at risk to defend our freedom. I am as keen as everybody for the review to be published as soon as possible. I will certainly pass on the message from the House today.