Medical Cannabis (Access) Bill

Debate between Kieran Mullan and Jeff Smith

Friday 10th December 2021 Commons Chamber

[Dr Mullan]

The point to draw from my hon. Friend’s intervention is that I have been working in this field for some time and I cannot think of any other example where we have decided to set aside all the ordinary processes that have been developed over many years, with great thought and attention to ensuring they are equitable in terms of resources, the NHS’s time and NHS researchers’ time, and come up with a whole separate process for determining the evidence on a particular treatment. That has never happened before that I am aware of.

I am happy to take an intervention from anyone on the Opposition side who can give me an example of when we have ever done that before, putting in place and encouraging the use of a particular treatment. I notice they do not—

[Jeff Smith]

rose—

[Dr Mullan]

Do, do intervene.

[Jeff Smith]

The hon. Gentleman is right, and I respect his view. He is very knowledgeable in these areas. The point, as I tried to outline earlier, is that there are very many experts who think the process we have at the moment is not appropriate for the cannabis plant and the full plant cannabis extract. All I am asking is for the wider evidence base to be looked at. That is also what the NHS asked for in 2019 and what Sir Michael Rawlins said we should be looking at. There are a lot of people who think that randomised controlled trials are not necessarily the right way forward in this particular instance. All I am asking is for the evidence to be looked at.

[Dr Mullan]

All I would say is that those discussions need to be had with NICE, the NIHR and the Department of Health and Social Care and many other people, but to use primary legislation is not the appropriate way to do it, I am afraid.

--- Later in debate ---

[Dr Mullan]

Members say that they do not want to achieve that, so why are they bringing forward this legislation? If they do not think that it will make a difference to the use of a treatment, why are they bringing this Bill before the House? They must think that it will have an impact.

[Jeff Smith]

I think the hon. Gentleman might have inadvertently misrepresented things. I have not proposed the Bill to try to have unlicensed medicines—as I think he said—put forward. What I am trying to do is to introduce a Bill that will enable clinicians to look at a wider evidence base in order to get those medicines licensed. That is what I am trying to do. I want to listen to the hon. Gentleman because he is very knowledgeable and I respect what he is saying. I think he is making an important speech. It is disappointing, however, that Members have spoken for so long that the Minister will not be able to speak. That is a bit of a poor show from the Government.

[Dr Mullan]

As I said, my view is that there is nothing at the moment in any of the legislation or roles of the bodies that we already have in place that restrict them from looking at any particular type of evidence. That is simply not true. They are allowed to look at whatever evidence they choose to look at. It is whether that evidence is there, is available to them and is sufficient.

Misuse of Drugs Act

Debate between Kieran Mullan and Jeff Smith

Thursday 17th June 2021 Commons Chamber

[Jeff Smith]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right. We have the evidence in the UK. There have been some very good diversion schemes in Durham and the west midlands, and there are others. We do not need to look at the evidence abroad; we can look at the evidence in the UK.

[Dr Kieran Mullan (Crewe and Nantwich) (Con)]

Does the hon. Gentleman accept that, particularly in relation to cannabis, the initial warning and the fixed penalty notice that we use at the moment do not prevent in any way, shape or form people from also being given a diversion scheme and other steps being taken? There is no barrier to that at the moment, for example, in relation to cannabis.

[Jeff Smith]

That is true. My problem with cannabis is that the supply is still in the hands of organised criminal gangs. That, for me, is not a sensible way to approach our drug policy.

We can explore models of decriminalisation, and we know that those are associated with reduced risks of recidivism, a reduced burden on police resources and savings to the public purse related to social costs, or we can look at models of legalised regulation. Whatever happens, we need a wholesale, new approach to this problem. The Government need to be honest that the last 50 years of drug policy have been a failure and have come at a terrible human, societal and economic cost. We need to commit to a public health approach rather than a criminal justice approach to drugs policy—one focused on saving lives and rooted in support and compassion for those who abuse drugs.

Among the MPs who want to speak in today’s debate, there will not be a single view on the way we go forward and what an alternative to the current approach to drugs policy should look like, and there will be different approaches for different substances. I look forward to hearing the views of Members, but I suspect that we probably mostly agree that, on the 50th anniversary of the Misuse of Drugs Act 1971, it is worth looking honestly at the legacy of that 50-year-old legislation and considering what needs to change to better serve our constituents and our communities. We should take this opportunity for political parties and the media to stop weaponising drugs policy and have a grown-up discussion about how we protect our communities. Today I am calling on the Government to launch a full, open-minded review of this legislation to learn from our mistakes, because we cannot afford another 50 years of failure.

I will leave the final words to Anne-Marie Cockburn, who is a campaigner for Anyone’s Child: Families for Safer Drug Control. Anne-Marie’s daughter Martha, like people through the generations for thousands of years, just wanted to have a bit of fun and get high. She researched on the internet how to get high safely. She was 15 years old when she took an overdose of MDMA that killed her. Anne-Marie says: “As I stand by my daughter’s grave, what more evidence do I need that UK drug policy needs to change?”