Court Closures and Reform

Kevin Hollinrake Excerpts

Tuesday 27th March 2018 Westminster Hall

[John Howell]

I will stick to the point that I started making. From what I have seen of how the courts are using technology, it is going in the right direction. The courts are making full use of the technology—indeed, they are pushing the technology beyond how we would normally expect it to be used.

The third element is alternative dispute resolution—I say that as the chairman of the all-party parliamentary group on alternative dispute resolution. Alternative dispute resolution takes cases out of the ambit of the courts and puts them in the hands of arbitrators who are able to hear the cases and resolve them, and they should do so. During the time I sat with judges in the commercial courts, it was obvious—the judge said it on many occasions—that people should have gone to arbitration before they went to court.

The last time I spoke on this issue, I was asked whether we ought to consider compulsory arbitration. I was doubtful at the time, but as I have come to consider it more, I now believe that a form of compulsory arbitration would be a good thing and should be included within the arbitration rules. This process is not just about the arbitration, or the alternative part of dispute resolution. Bodies such as Network Rail try to solve disputes before they happen by putting in place the mechanisms to solve them.

I mention that because it is an important point about how courts are not being used as much as they were. Alternative dispute resolution is cheaper, quicker and gives much more immediate access to justice—we should not forget that access to justice is one of the key elements of the process. It takes nothing away from the courts: if the alternative dispute resolution fails, there is still recourse to the courts at the end of the process.

Through all of this, there is a need to ensure that we connect with the communities that we are serving. Doing that through existing buildings without exploring the use of town halls and other buildings within a community is not the right way of proceeding.

[Kevin Hollinrake (Thirsk and Malton) (Con)]

My hon. Friend made the point right at the start of his remarks about access to justice. Is he aware of any system operating thus far whereby technology replaces the entire work of a magistrates court in a full criminal case, or is that yet to be proven?

[John Howell]

If I do not know the answer, I think my hon. Friend is about to tell me where that is the case.

[Kevin Hollinrake]

No, I am asking you.

[John Howell]

I do not know of a case where that is happening across the whole system. The courts’ use of technology and how they are pushing it, including the exemplary work by Lord Justice Briggs to set up an online court, is going in the right direction in respect of bringing access to justice within the ambit of a huge number of people for whom—I say this with all deference to the Minister—the legal fees involved are out of this world. We should keep that in mind as being a fundamental part of ensuring access to justice.

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[Kevin Hollinrake (Thirsk and Malton) (Con)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Gray. I thank the hon. Member for Slough (Mr Dhesi) for securing this very important debate. The policy certainly affects my constituency, with Northallerton magistrates court scheduled for closure. We cannot disconnect this policy from the overall policy of trying to improve our public finances. It has been a long road from the position in 2010 when our day-to-day spending, which is a key measure, was in deficit by £100 billion a year, but finally in 2017 we got that back in the black, if we exclude investment spending, for the first time since 2001, which is a remarkable achievement.

We must always be careful when talking about the spending of taxpayers’ money, so it is absolutely right that we look for efficiencies. That cannot exclude our courts and court estate. The Minister has been a model Minister in her engagement. She has gone out of her way to engage with me, and I am sure other colleagues, to ensure we understand the policy and the reasons behind it. My principal question is: has the policy been properly rural-proofed and is it fair?

My constituency of Thirsk and Malton is very rural with far more acres than people. It is not a rotten borough—just a huge constituency, with 77,230 people entitled to vote in it—although it was rotten in the 18th century when Edmund Burke represented it. There are many similar constituencies up and down the country: 20% of our population live in rural areas; such areas have 25% of all businesses; 3.4 million jobs are in rural areas; and 16.5% of our economy is in rural areas. There are demographic challenges in rural constituencies. I know we are not debating the NHS, but I can draw a parallel in some of the consequences of policies. I recently had correspondence from a constituent who lives near Scarborough and had been forced to travel to York for her operation. She had to take a bus and stay overnight even for a consultation. Policies in rural areas have a profound effect and might have a similar effect in terms of people’s access to justice.

Many other services are impacted, such as bus services. In my constituency, because of the demographics, we have many bus passes but not many buses. All that needs to be taken into account in policy. If Northallerton court closes, travel times will increase significantly. The logistics must be considered. For example, a journey from Rosedale to York would require three different buses and would probably be a four-hour round trip. Hawes to Skipton would take a similar time. That can affect access to justice in rural areas.

It is important that defendants are able to access justice fairly. I have talked to magistrates, including one who works in my constituency office, Nigel Knapton, who is a JP. A lot of defendants are vulnerable and have mental health conditions, and difficulties in accessing a different court would be more profoundly felt by them.

The journey times would effectively transfer cost and time from the Ministry of Justice budget to the police budget, because our police officers would have to travel to the courts. We have seen that in other areas with the closure of the custody suite in Northallerton, which means our police officers have to take an individual they have arrested to Harrogate, which is an hour’s journey. That might seem like a sensible efficiency, but is transferring costs from one budget to another a false economy?

There is also an effect on witnesses if they have to travel to courts that are hours away. They can be compelled to attend, but that is not usually the approach. Having to travel early to get to a morning session would be harshly felt by many witnesses, which could mean fewer prosecutions being brought. Magistrates, who are volunteers—we need more magistrates and are looking to recruit—might be less attracted by the prospect of travelling to a court in Teesside, Harrogate, Skipton or York, miles away from my constituency.

I have talked to JPs such as Michael Colyer, who came to see me in 2016. He was worried about the potential closure of Northallerton magistrates court, and we were assured at that time that there were no plans to close it. He made the point that 95% of all criminal work is heard in a magistrates court, yet only 1% of the cost of the judicial system is in our magistrates courts. He asks why, instead of saying magistrates courts are not busy enough, the threshold for cases that can be heard in a magistrates court cannot be opened up. The current limit is six months. The Minister will know more than I do but, if we increased that to 12 months, magistrates could hear many more cases, and those cases could be heard in the most efficient part of the justice system.

The Minister was clear that we need to look at the issues carefully and to see whether technology can provide a solution to some of the challenges for rural areas. I am certainly very happy to move with the times, but we need to ensure that there has been a successful evaluation of the technologies to ensure they can deliver suitable access to justice for people in rural areas. I was interested to hear my hon. Friend the Member for Henley (John Howell) talking about Justice Briggs and his online courts. I am not against that, but my concern is that the announcement of the potential closure, which is rightly subject to a consultation, is premature, coming before we have seen the outcomes of the pilots. I would welcome a pilot in my area to see whether my concerns and those of many other people who have contacted me, including my police and crime commissioner, can be eased. I am happy to move with the times, but the policy must be fair and rural-proofed. People in rural areas must have access to justice just like everyone else.

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[Lucy Frazer]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right. It is not only justices who are advocating online courts but people who use the system. We recently launched our online digital court process, through which people can make claims of up to £10,000. The pilot has been extremely successful.

That brings me on nicely to our other pilots. We are in the midst of upgrading our system in a variety of ways, in different courts and for different remedies that people need. It is now possible to apply for an uncontested divorce and for probate online. It is possible to make pleas for lower level offences, to respond to jury summonses and to issue and respond to civil money claims online. In the social security tribunal system, it is possible to track an appeal online and get mobile updates about the progress of a case. Those changes are making access to justice more efficient, quicker and, for many, much easier to use.

Thousands of people have already used those pilots and received straightforward digital access to justice for the first time, and the public feedback has been extremely positive. By providing services online, we are significantly improving the experience of those using the courts. We see that in the number of forms completed correctly. The rejection rate for paper divorce applications was 40% due to errors and omissions. Since the latest release of the online divorce service, the online rejection rate is now less than 1%.

The hon. Member for Bolton South East (Yasmin Qureshi) made some important points about vulnerable people. She is right that not everybody has a computer, uses the internet or is comfortable doing so. We are establishing a range of support channels, including telephone and face-to-face assistance, and we have worked closely with other Departments to ensure vulnerable people are protected. Our experience shows that the most vulnerable will still be able to access digital services. For example, in relation to our help with fees, the rejection rate stands at about 20% after the introduction of digital processes, compared with 75% for the paper version.

The hon. Lady also said that court can sometimes be intimidating. I said previously that we have social security updates for people going through the system on their mobile phone, and the feedback from that has been extremely positive. Someone said recently, “Courts, judges, decision all quite frightening. This completely calmed me down.” My hon. Friend the Member for Henley (John Howell) talked about the possibility of technology improving our court service—not only in the commercial court but elsewhere. It is right that we consider the possibilities for justice.

We are not just investing in digital. Since April 2015, we have spent £108 million on capital maintenance to improve our estate, including £2 million for refurbishments in Manchester Central, £1.5 million for rewiring and replacing windows in Preston and more than £1.5 million for a roof and lift replacements in Leeds Central.

Other hon. Members raised issues about court closures. We must recognise some important facts about the court and tribunal estate, which is underused. About 41% of courts and tribunals used less than half their available hearing capacity in financial year 2016-17, and much of that space is in poor condition. The hon. Member for Slough talked about Maidenhead. The court is underused and sat for less than one third of its available hours in the past financial year. It is in a poor state of affairs and requires a new roof and windows, generating a total maintenance backlog of more than £1 million.

[Kevin Hollinrake]

The Minister is making a very good point about buildings that need investment, but is she aware that Northallerton is in fantastic condition, having recently been refurbished, and that it has the best disabled access in North Yorkshire?

[Lucy Frazer]

I was coming to Northallerton, but as my hon. Friend raises it I will deal with it now. As always, he made some very valid and rational points in his speech, including about the need to keep our finances under control. We are doing that and must continue to do so. He also made some valid points about rural areas. I represent a rural area, and I understand his concerns. I am pleased to have met him and the police and crime commissioner for his area. There is a good service in Northallerton, but it is underused. An interesting fact that has recently come to light is that only 11% of cases held in Northallerton magistrates court actually come from the Northallerton area, so the court actually serves a much wider area. That is how our civil justice system operates.

It is important that when we are looking to close courts—of course, no decisions have yet been made about any of the courts that are under consultation—we need to ensure that the technology we are talking about is operative so people still have access to justice.