Mineworkers’ Pension Scheme

Debate between Kevin Barron and Grahame Morris

Monday 10th June 2019 Commons Chamber

[Grahame Morris]

Absolutely; that is a key point. I hope those on the Treasury Bench will listen intently to the points made in this debate.

My hon. Friend the Member for Torfaen (Nick Thomas-Symonds) made a point about the number of miners and their dependants who were dying. The mineworkers’ pension scheme annual report shows a dramatic fall in the number of pensions in payment. It has fallen from 175,000 in 2011 to just over 135,000 today. As this indicates, because of the age of the retired miners and their widows—many are now in their 80s or older—they are passing away and the number of beneficiaries is falling dramatically.

I am proud to represent the mining communities of east Durham. We owe a debt of gratitude to our miners. Easington’s pits produced the nation’s wealth and powered the industrial revolution, and the mining industry transformed our landscape. Without coal, many of the colliery villages in Durham would simply not exist. Where a pit was sunk, workers from all parts of the UK— from Wales, Cornwall, Ireland—would come to work in those collieries. Indeed, at the height of its production, the Durham coalfield alone employed 170,000 miners in the 1920s.

Coalmining remained our primary source of employment until the closure of our last pit in Durham in 1994. The colliery in my village, Murton, ceased production in November 1991. It was a proud industry until relatively recent times. In my opinion, the men who toiled in our pits are heroes—they worked in darkness so that we could live in light—and, in their retirement, they and their widows deserve respect and security.

There are points of agreement that I believe are accepted across the House, including, I hope, on the Treasury Bench and among Government Back Benchers. I think we can all agree that there is value and importance in the guarantee given to the mineworkers’ pension schemes. What is in dispute is the cost of the guarantee. There is no denying that the guarantee has given to those who administer the funds the freedom to make bold investment decisions, which has allowed them to target higher returns on investment. It follows that the guarantor—the Government—should be compensated for the guarantee fairly and proportionately.

This debate is about the cost of that guarantee and whether the £4.4 billion and the ongoing claim to half of all future surpluses can be considered reasonable recompense to the Government for the level of risk they shoulder. In my view, there should be some correlation between the level of compensation and the level of risk.

[Sir Kevin Barron (Rother Valley) (Lab)]

We should recognise that when the increase in the miners’ pension scheme was higher than that in the state benefit scheme, many people in my constituency, because they got more money, did not take the means-tested benefits they were entitled to, so it is not just about surpluses; it is about how much money the scheme saved the state.

[Grahame Morris]

That is an absolutely relevant point. Other colleagues have referred to the relative pension levels. Ministers often quote the percentage increases, but the average pension payable is £84 a week. That is a paltry sum. I also respectfully point out to the Minister that the Government have never been called upon to make a single payment into the scheme.

Health (CSR)

Debate between Kevin Barron and Grahame Morris

Thursday 11th November 2010 Westminster Hall

[Mr Barron]

That is absolutely true. There are fewer resources, because more is being taken out of administration than was planned before the spending review came along.

I am intrigued by the idea of giving clinicians power or giving GPs power. The British Medical Association is not saying no to the idea of GP commissioning. That is good—I have some quotations from it in front of me—but it would want to look at having a real local clinical partnership that included clinicians who worked in the local provider—the local hospitals. It believes that if we are going to do this, that ought to be looked at. I am interested to see whether the Minister agrees. One reason I say that is because, when we took evidence from his favourite organisation, the King’s Fund, the Royal College of Physicians and others thought that PCTs should be retained, but that hospital clinicians and GPs should work more closely together. Professor Ham, who is obviously one of the Minister’s favourite authors in these matters, said:

“There should be progressive migration towards clinically integrated systems, building on the most promising aspects of current reforms and drawing on evidence that shows the benefits of integration and the challenges of making a commissioner/provider split system function effectively.”

He was arguing for real integrated care, but my understanding is that that is not what the White Paper is proposing. It is proposing that only GPs will have the power to spend 70 or 80% of the NHS budget, not other local clinicians as well. I would like the Minister to reply on that specific point.

[Grahame M. Morris]

I thank my right hon. Friend for giving way on the point about GP commissioning. That is an issue that the Minister might address. If streamlining in commissioning bodies saves money—I think the previous Labour Government demonstrated that by reducing the number of PCTs from 350 to 150, which was acknowledged by Sir David Nicholson—how can it save money to be creating a plethora of GP consortiums that will be responsible for commissioning? Creating such a plethora of bodies must add to administrative costs.

[Mr Barron]

I am grateful to my hon. Friend for his intervention. I have to say to the Minister that at no time when members of the Health Committee in the previous Parliament were looking at commissioning did we ever think that the Government would hand it over to GPs in the way being proposed in the White Paper. It has huge implications, not just for the NHS, but for GPs themselves. The only evidence we saw was that GP fund-holding has struggled for nearly 20 years to be a good, proper and efficient way to commission services. Frankly, nobody submitted any evidence to my knowledge for the leap into the dark of handing commissioning to GPs in such a quick period of time. Nobody gave that evidence whatever. There were some arguments about keeping the PCT and adding GPs to it, so that they could get the experience. Frankly, there should be more medical leadership in our national health service; I have no doubts about that. This leap in the dark with GP commissioning is something that, I fear, is unlikely to work. The professionals who work in the health service appear to have that same fear.