Employment Law: Devolution to Scotland

Debate between Kenny MacAskill and Hywel Williams

Tuesday 6th September 2022 Westminster Hall

[Kenny MacAskill (East Lothian) (Alba)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Sir Edward. Like others, I congratulate the hon. Member for Lanark and Hamilton East (Angela Crawley) on securing the debate. I take the view that employment law should have been devolved at the outset and should certainly be devolved now. It is an omission, and it might be worth while to consider why it has not been done to date and why, even when we have reviewed it through Calman, through Smith and at other junctures, change has not been taken.

Some of those who opposed the devolution of employment law at the outset have learned hard lessons and have correctly moved on; others will have to explain why they continue to be intransigent, as has been asked by Members. It seems to me to be an omission from the Scotland Act 1998, but that always was an Act that lacked cohesion. It was neither federalism nor logical, and there was arguably no logic to which matters were reserved. Indeed, matters were devolved summarily, which has left us with a situation whereby the economy is devolved but the fiscal levers that can operate it are not. Criminal justice—I was privileged to serve as Justice Secretary—was devolved, but firearms and narcotics were not. Show me a jurisdiction in the world in which firearms and narcotics are not the basis of criminal law or the breach thereof. We had a situation at the outset where euthanasia was devolved but abortion was reserved. We even had the absurdity that Antarctica and powers over it were devolved but foreign affairs were reserved. I do not know anybody in any political party who ever sought for Scotland to have a say over Antarctica.

[Hywel Williams]

I just want to add a pertinent comment. When further devolution was being considered for Wales, water was to be retained in London and sewerage was to be devolved.

[Kenny MacAskill]

That shows the illogicality of the current devolved set-up.

We obviously have seen changes—some have come through Smith, some have come through Calman and some have come through other ways. We now have air weapons devolved, even though firearms are reserved. We have the drink-driving limit devolved, although road traffic remains reserved. Indeed, abortion has since been devolved in order to join with euthanasia as powers within the Scottish Parliament. During my tenure as Justice Secretary, the Scottish tribunal service was established. It became the Scottish Courts and Tribunals Service, having previously been the Scottish Court Service and Tribunal Service. At the head of the Scottish Courts and Tribunals Service sits Lord Carloway, who is the Lord President and the very pinnacle of the judicial system in Scotland. Beneath that, we have tribunals being operated and run in Scotland, yet many of their most fundamental aspects—the law, legislation and regulations—are reserved to Westminster. That makes no logical sense; indeed, it is absurd.

More citizens appear before a tribunal than ever appear before a court of law, yet the tribunal that Scots are most likely to go to in order to seek recompense, change or whatever it is—some aspect of justice—is led by the senior Scottish judiciary, but the organs and levers are controlled. It should have been devolved, and it should be devolved now, because it is essential. We have a new Prime Minister, who has already laid down where she sees things going. I think that is fundamentally wrong, because we cannot go backwards.

I recently read a book about a radical MP called Joseph Hume, who had served in Middlesex, Montrose and Killarney—not in Wales. He came to fame because he opposed the Combination Acts 1799 and 1800. The Combination Acts were legislation that did not outlaw striking; they outlawed the right of workers to organise. They predated laws that came in through Keir Hardie and others. That was not in the 1930s; it was in the 1830s. Joseph Hume opposed the Combination Acts, which existed before Queen Victoria came to power, yet we have an incoming Prime Minister who, in 2022, is talking about ruling out strikes and attacking the fundamental rights of workers to organise. Under the new Administration, we are going back not to the 1930s, but to the 1830s—whether or not employment law is devolved.

Enough is enough. The Prime Minister will have to recognise that whether it comes from law changes in Holyrood, as it should, or from actions in defence to legislative changes here in Westminster, workers ain’t going to take it any more. The changes to be brought in have already seen the likes of the RMT, Unite and the Communication Workers Union out on strike. It is about not just wages, but terms and conditions of employment. We know that, in the fundamental RMT dispute, it is not simply a wage that workers are seeking—not the figures of £55,000 that are bandied about, because the average RMT worker gets nothing like that. It is also about the fundamental terms and conditions: the reduction in workers, making those who remain work longer and reducing the terms of their safety. Enough is enough. It is unacceptable.

I conclude by saying that employment law should have been devolved at the outset, and it should most certainly be devolved now. Irrespective of that, the fight is on. The current Administration may try to bring changes in and use the powers they have here, but those changes will be opposed in Scotland and across the country.