Oral Answers to Questions

Kemi Badenoch Excerpts

Wednesday 26th February 2025 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

We now come to the Leader of the Opposition.

[Mrs Kemi Badenoch (North West Essex) (Con)]

I wish the Prime Minister every success on his trip to Washington. The visit to see President Trump must serve our national interest. The Prime Minister and I are completely united in our support for Ukraine as a proud and sovereign nation. What specific steps will he take to ensure Ukraine is at the negotiating table for any peace settlement?

[The Prime Minister]

I thank the Leader of the Opposition for her words about the forthcoming trip. It is right, and I think the whole House will think it is right, that Ukraine must be at the table at negotiations. There can be no negotiations about Ukraine without Ukraine. That has been my consistent position in all of the discussions that I have had. That will continue to be my position, because this is about the sovereignty of Ukraine and the Ukrainians’ ability to decide for themselves the future of their country, so they must be at the table.

[Mrs Badenoch]

I thank the Prime Minister for that answer, and as I said, I wish him every success. We want to support him on this issue.

Turning to the details of the plan the Prime Minister set out yesterday, over the weekend I suggested to him that he cut the aid budget, and I am pleased that he accepted my advice—[Laughter.] It is the fastest response I have ever had from the Prime Minister. However, he announced £13.4 billion in additional defence spending yesterday. This morning, his Defence Secretary said the uplift is only £6 billion. Which is the correct figure?

[The Prime Minister]

I am going to have to let the Leader of the Opposition down gently: she did not feature in my thinking at all. I was so busy over the weekend that I did not even see her proposal. She has appointed herself the saviour of western civilisation; it is a desperate search for relevance.

If you take the numbers for this financial year and the numbers for the ’27-28 financial year, there is a £13.4 billion increase. That is the largest sustained increase in defence spending since the cold war, and will put us in a position to ensure the security and defence of our country and of Europe.

[Mrs Badenoch]

That was not very clear. How is it that the Defence Secretary says £6 billion, but the Prime Minister says £13.4 billion? The Institute for Fiscal Studies has said the Government are playing “silly games with numbers”. How has he found this difference in numbers?

[The Prime Minister]

We went through this two weeks ago, going over the same question again and again. Let me say it again: if you take the financial year this year, and then you take the financial year for ’27-28, the difference between the two is £13.4 billion. That is the same answer. If she asks again, I will give the same answer again.

[Mr Speaker]

I will decide when there is more.

[Mrs Badenoch]

Someone needs to tell the Prime Minister that being patronising is not a substitute for answering questions. He has not answered the question. What he has said is different from what he said yesterday. We are still not clear where the money is coming from. We want to support him. He has also said that we should put British troops on the ground in Ukraine, but we have not seen the detail of any proposals. Would his new spending plans allow him to fund that commitment effectively?

[The Prime Minister]

I think it is the same question again. It is £13.4 billion—that is the difference between this year and ’27-28.

The Leader of the Opposition asks a serious question about the security guarantees in Ukraine. That is extremely important, because the worst of all outcomes, if there is to be a cessation of hostilities, would be for it to be a short break, rather than a sustained and lasting peace. That means there have to be security guarantees, and I have indicated that we will play our full part. There has to be US backing; otherwise, I do not think it will deter Putin. We are working on that. I am having extensive discussions on it. I am not in a position to put details before the House today, as she well knows, but I will continue down that route. I want a lasting peace in Ukraine and Europe for the safety and security of Ukrainians, Europeans and, of course, everybody in this country.

[Mrs Badenoch]

This is an endeavour that we want to support the Prime Minister in, but we need to know exactly what we are supporting. We need clarity and transparency over the money, and we also need to know where the money is going. This morning, the Defence Secretary could not say whether the Chagos deal would come out of the defence budget. Can the Prime Minister confirm to the House that none of the defence uplift includes payments for his Chagos deal?

[The Prime Minister]

The additional spend I announced yesterday is for our capability on defence and security in Europe, as I made absolutely clear yesterday. The Chagos deal is extremely important for our security and for US security, and the US is rightly looking at it. When the deal is finalised, I will put it before the House with the costings. The figures being bandied around are absolutely wide of the mark. The deal is for well over a century. The funding I announced yesterday is for our capability, and will put us in a position to rise to a generational challenge. That is what that money is all about; I thought the right hon. Lady supported it.

[Mrs Badenoch]

We need to make sure we are supporting a plan that is clear and transparent. Yesterday, the Prime Minister set an ambition for defence spending to reach 3% in the next Parliament, and we agree with him on that. However, that could be 2034—almost a decade away. That is too slow. We do not know how he will pay for it. We cannot raise taxes further, and we already pay more on debt interest than defence.

Everyone in this House will have heard the Prime Minister not answer the previous question, so I will ask again: is he paying for the Chagos deal with this defence uplift or not?

[The Prime Minister]

I have just dealt with that question, Mr Speaker. The money announced yesterday is going to our capability in order to put ourselves in a position to defend the security of both our country and Europe. The Leader of the Opposition asked about defence spending. She gave what people have described as a rambling speech yesterday, where she could not say what defence spending should be. We have been absolutely clear. We have set out a full, credible, costed plan, and I thought she supported it.