Cancer Targets

Debate between Karen Lee and John Baron

Tuesday 1st May 2018 Westminster Hall

[Mr Baron]

I completely agree. The problem as I understand it is that, according to the House of Commons Library, there are something like nine process targets focused on cancer alone. Briefly, it is an inconvenient truth that, if we look back over the past 20 or 30 years, we will see that the NHS has been beset by process targets from both sides and for the best of reasons. The bottom line is that we have not caught up with international averages in any meaningful way over those 20 to 30 years, so we must start to question the efficacy of those process targets when what we are trying to do is to improve survival rates. If we get the NHS focused on one-year survival rates, it should look at the journey as a whole, not just a small part of it, in trying to promote initiatives to encourage earlier diagnosis, which at the end of the day is what we all have to do if we are to improve survival rates.

[Karen Lee (Lincoln) (Lab)]

I am the mother of somebody who died of breast cancer and I would argue that this is about the lived experience. It is not just about survival; it is also about the journey—getting there. If care is not adequate or good enough along the way, whether somebody survives or not—well, it is better to survive, of course, but I would argue that this is absolutely about the journey. Targets are meaningless if they are not about people and their lived experience.

[Mr Baron]

I completely agree. My worry about targets is that they focus on a very small, specific part of the journey when we should be talking about the journey as a whole. What I have not mentioned so far is that it was not just the one-year figures but the five-year figures that we were arguing for. We have to take a longer view of the journey in order to ensure that we take into account all aspects of it, including the support, the surround sound—the way of living—and so on. We have to ensure that those who survive receive enough support, but my central point is that if we really are intent on encouraging earlier diagnosis, the process targets have been too blunt a weapon. We all love them. Politicians love them. Both sides love them, and the Opposition can hit the Government with them if they are missed. It is a short-term approach. In reality, they have not improved survival rates to the point where we are catching up with international averages, and that is the key problem.

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[Mr Baron]

I broadly agree. Although a system as big as the NHS must always be able to respond to short-term emergencies, such as the winter crisis, longer-term thinking is needed to address key issues such as cancer survival. At the moment we have an absence of long-term thinking, let alone long-term funding, which is harming patients to the extent that we are not focusing on outcomes. In 2009 the then Department of Health’s own figures showed that 10,000 lives were needlessly lost because we were not meeting European averages for survival rates. I agree that we need longer-term thinking, and that is where outcome indicators, such as one-year and five-year cancer survival rates, would encourage not just long-term thinking, but long-term funding.

[Karen Lee]

That is a problem right across the NHS. We need to take the NHS out of the political arena. The absolute bottom line is that we need a proper, long-term strategy.

[Mr Baron]

I thank the hon. Lady for her support. I have been non-partisan on this matter, as I have been as chairman of the all-party group. Both sides have been guilty of trying to score political points on the back of process targets, because no Government have met them all in their entirety; we play this short-term political game when in reality what we need to do is, as best as possible, take the NHS out of politics and encourage long-term thinking. The best approach, at least with regard to cancer, would be to get the NHS to focus on those one-year and five-year survival rates. We could then stand back and say, “You are the medical experts and we are the politicians. We will hold you accountable, but use your expertise now to come up with the best plans to improve your one-year and five-year figures.” That would certainly encourage longer-term thinking and funding.

I am conscious that other hon. Members want to contribute, so I will not bore everyone with the ins and outs of the all-party group’s efforts to encourage the Government to break the link between the 62 days and the transformation funding, because discussions are still ongoing. However, I will share with the House the fact that I raised the issue at Prime Minister’s questions back in December. During a positive subsequent meeting in March, the Prime Minister agreed that all transformation funding should be released immediately, provided that relevant cancer alliances promised to produce a 62-day plan—the promise is the important thing; they did not have to produce them.

I am now in discussions with officials from No. 10 and the DHSC, because the system has been slow in following through what was agreed at that meeting. Following my further question at Prime Minister’s questions last Wednesday, the Prime Minister has agreed to meet me again, should we continue to make insufficient progress. Negotiations are now in train and I hope that we can get the funding released as quickly as possible, without waiting for the alliances to actually hit the 62-day target. The Prime Minister clearly said that she wants the transformation funding released on the promise that they will produce a plan to hit the 62-day target.

In the long term, the NHS needs to rebalance its focus away from process targets in favour of outcome indicators, such as the one-year cancer survival rates, that best help patients. If outcome measures are good and being hit, it follows that the processes will also be good; one cannot have good outcomes if there are not good processes. Patients will be seen and diagnosed in a timely fashion appropriate to their illness. These outcome measures will also have the benefit of allowing the NHS to design services and pathways flexibly, and without the straitjacket imposed by blunt process targets. That is the key issue here: focusing on the outcomes encourages the NHS at the frontline to devise ways of encouraging earlier diagnosis, including better awareness campaigns, wider screening uptake, better GP referral routes and better diagnostics. The NHS is encouraged to make those decisions at the frontline in order to drive forward earlier diagnosis.

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[Karen Lee (Lincoln) (Lab)]

I do not want to repeat a lot of what the hon. Member for Basildon and Billericay (Mr Baron) has said because he has already said some of what I was going to say. I am here because when I was elected I was asked by Breast Cancer Now to be an ambassador and I readily agreed. I will highlight a few things on its behalf.

Breast Cancer Now says that although some CCGs meet diagnosis and detection targets, there are national geographical inequalities in the provision of care, and diagnosis and detection are taking priority over treatment for secondary breast cancer, which is an issue. Transformation funding has been mentioned, and Breast Cancer Now feels that such funding must be decoupled from waiting time targets immediately.

My CCG is failing to hit the targets, which means it does not get the funding. If it is failing to meet the targets, how will withholding the money make things any better? I want the Government to tell us how that makes things any better. I understand about targets and measures, but how does not giving CCGs money to treat people properly make things any better?

NHS cancer targets have tended to focus on early detection and diagnosis, which means there is less focus and resource allocated to supporting people after they have finished treatment and are living with secondary cancers. One in four people find that the end of their treatment is the hardest part and they do not always have access to a clinical nurse specialist. My daughter did not. Things moved fast for my daughter. She was diagnosed and died within 13 months. She was just 35 and she left a husband and three children behind. To get her back into hospital was an absolute nightmare. I knew all the right things to say to get her into hospital and I finally managed it, but the support was not there. People try and do their best, but the support was not right and it was not good enough. The treatment for secondary breast cancer is not good enough and that really needs to be looked at.

Every cancer patient coming to the end of their treatment should have a recovery package. A clearer picture of progress on the availability of health and wellbeing events for people living with and beyond breast cancer across England is urgently needed. The Government, as the agency that ultimately decides how our NHS is run, must deliver on that and answer for that.

I was asked to mention the collection of data and access to clinical nurse specialists, because there has been no progress. Breast Cancer Care’s 2015 research showed that only a third of NHS trusts were collecting full data on secondary breast cancer, and three quarters of NHS trusts and health boards say there is not enough specialist nursing care available. People with secondary breast cancer feel they are second rate. Lynsey used to say that. She said, “It was all right, Mum, when I was having chemo and radiotherapy and everybody was buzzing round me, but now there is nothing. There is no support at all.”

I spoke on Breast Cancer Now’s 2050 vision in Parliament a couple of months ago. If we all act now, by 2050 everybody who develops breast cancer will live, and I really hope that that happens.

[Mr Baron]

The first point that the hon. Lady made about the iniquitous position that many CCGs now find themselves in is a strong one. The Government have given transformation funding of £200 million to NHS England, but a lot of it is sitting there when it is desperately needed, particularly by those that need to do a lot of catching up. It was not meant to be withheld in such a fashion. It is iniquitous also that the 62 days was retrospectively applied.