Police Accountability

Debate between Julian Lewis and Yvette Cooper

Wednesday 23rd October 2024 Commons Chamber

[Yvette Cooper]

We want the College of Policing to be able to set up a lessons learned database to make sure that action is taken when, for example, there are deaths or serious injuries following police contact. Even when such cases are investigated and reforms, measures or recommendations are made, too often those are not followed up and are not actually implemented. As a result, bereaved families can feel badly let down. It is important not only that we have a clear framework of standards, but that when things go wrong, a proper system is in place to ensure that lessons are learned and things can be improved for the future.

[Sir Julian Lewis (New Forest East) (Con)]

I am sure most fair-minded people will feel that the Home Secretary has got the balance exactly right, particularly as she has now brought in the presumption of anonymity. May I draw her attention to a surprisingly detailed report by the courts correspondent of the Evening Standard? He seems to have had access to police intelligence reports about a £10,000 reward being offered by gangs to identify, and presumably wreak reprisals against, the sergeant concerned. What is concerning to me is that a Metropolitan police spokesman says:

“This was investigated and protective measures taken. The investigation is now closed.”

I would have thought that, if there were intelligence indicating that a hit was being arranged, the investigation should not be closed until the perpetrators were themselves arrested.

[Yvette Cooper]

I thank the right hon. Member for that question. It is clearly important that police officers who face threats or risks as a result of the job they do and the difficult situations they find themselves in because of their work to keep us safe have strong protection and support. He will know that I cannot comment on an individual case and certainly not on an individual investigation. Those are rightly independent operational decisions for police forces. However, I think more widely that everyone will want to make sure that officers who do difficult jobs do have the support that they need.

Terrorism (Protection of Premises) Bill

Debate between Julian Lewis and Yvette Cooper

2nd reading
Monday 14th October 2024 Commons Chamber

[Yvette Cooper]

The hon. Gentleman makes an important point, and I know there will be many detailed discussions on that in Committee. Since the original draft legislation was published, we have sought to ensure that there was extensive consultation with businesses, with premises and with venues of all sizes. That is why there is a different approach, which I will come on to, for different sizes of venue, ensuring that the response that premises need to make is proportionate and recognises the detailed individual circumstances, which will be very different from one venue and one organisation to another. I will come to that point and that detail.

The legislation requires for the first time that those responsible for certain premises and events consider terrorist risk and how they would respond to an attack. Larger premises and events will need to take steps to reduce their vulnerability to terrorist attacks. For premises to fall within the scope of the Bill, it must be reasonable to expect that there may be 200 or more individuals present on those premises at the same time. In addition, the premises must be used for one or more of the activities specified in the Bill—for example, entertainment or leisure. For those premises that are in scope, a tiered approach has been established, with requirements varying. Events and premises where it is reasonably expected that 800 or more people may be present at once will generally be in the enhanced tier, and any other premises—those where 200 to 800 people may be present—will be in the standard tier.

Those responsible for premises in the standard tier will be required to notify the regulator and have in place public protection procedures to reduce the risk of harm to individuals in the event of an act of terrorism. It is important that those procedures are designed to be very simple and low cost. There will be no requirement to put in place physical measures in the standard tier. There are four categories of procedure: evacuation, which relates to the process of getting people safely out of the premises; invacuation, for example where we need to keep people safe within premises; lockdown, if a premises needs to be kept secure from an attacker who is trying to get in; and communication—simply communicating to all those involved, including staff and the public who might be at risk.

In recognition of the potentially greater impact of an attack on larger premises, those in the enhanced tier will be subject to additional requirements or public protection measures: monitoring for risks and indicators; security measures for individuals, which might mean search and screening processes; physical safety measures, where relevant, such as safety glass; and securing information to make it harder for people to plan, prepare or execute acts of terrorism.

[Sir Julian Lewis (New Forest East) (Con)]

May I just ask, given that the atrocity in the Manchester Arena was caused by a terrorist coming in with explosives in a very prominent backpack, how the measures being proposed would have affected that scenario?

[Yvette Cooper]

We are being clear that it is not for the Government to specify precise arrangements for every venue. I do not think it would be appropriate to do so. Arrangements will vary according to the event. We know that many large venues already have procedures to search bags or conduct those sorts of checks. We are clear that this needs to be done proportionately, and according to the size of the venue and the arrangements in place.

[Sir Julian Lewis]

If I may pursue that point a little further, if what we are really talking about is explosions being carried out by suicide bombers among large numbers of people, the one thing that all those atrocities have in common is that an explosive device, which is invariably bulky, has to be carried in. Is that not the central point that everybody ought to be addressing?

[Yvette Cooper]

The right hon. Gentleman is right. That is why one of the things we would expect is that premises have proper search measures, and particularly to ensure that there are security measures around the movement of individuals, but as well as the searches that might take place at an event itself, safety measures may also involve having monitoring procedures in place—for example, if the same individual has been back, circling a venue several times, and is behaving in a suspicious or inappropriate way. Making sure that staff are trained to recognise those kinds of risks and indicators may be an important part of keeping the venue safe.

Violent Disorder

Debate between Julian Lewis and Yvette Cooper

Monday 2nd September 2024 Commons Chamber

[Yvette Cooper]

I thank my hon. Friend for his powerful words on behalf of his constituents. I thank him for standing up for the people of Southport, including those families who have had to endure the most unspeakable horror and who are still having to deal with the consequences of what happened. He is absolutely right that no one should ever use the terrible attack on three little girls as an excuse for the kinds of violent disorder we have seen. I am so sorry that the families and the community he represents have had to endure not just the original attack, but people claiming to be doing things in the name of Southport. Clearly, what those people have been doing is not that, but simply crime.

[Sir Julian Lewis (New Forest East) (Con)]

Does the Home Secretary agree that one reason why what might be called her shock and awe policy successfully shut down the violence so quickly was the speed with which the offenders were brought before the courts and sentenced? And if she does agree with that as a deterrent for the future, how can that model be adapted in other areas of justice?

Southport Incident

Debate between Julian Lewis and Yvette Cooper

Tuesday 30th July 2024 Commons Chamber

[Yvette Cooper]

I welcome the hon. Member’s words and her support for Southport—the community, the families and the emergency workers. She is right to recognise the impact that dealing with something as awful as this can have on emergency workers—on those who had to respond—and it is right that we should recognise that and show our support; we owe those workers our support and thanks for what they had to face and the way they responded. But, most of all, everybody will want to support the grieving families and the victims—those who have been most affected and who will have seen huge trauma as a result. Victim Care Merseyside is already working closely to provide support. The Merseyside family liaison officers do an incredible job; I have met them in difficult circumstances in the past, and I know they will continue to do so. The Home Office and other Government Departments stand ready to work with them and to support them to make sure that the community gets the support it needs.

[Sir Julian Lewis (New Forest East) (Con)]

May I draw the attention of the House and the wider public who may be watching to the fact that the Sky News feed has a link to the JustGiving website to raise money for the bereaved families, with all the costs that will be associated with their bereavement? That is a practical way in which people can contribute.

May I also briefly draw attention to the fact that when these situations arise, some of the most heroic participants are women on the scene? I have never understood why the courageous women who went to help Lee Rigby confront his murderers never received a bravery award. I also still do not understand why Grace O’Malley-Kumar, who instead of running away from her murderer sought to fight the killer of her friend Barnaby, has not been honoured although it is not too late. Let us try to draw the inspiration we can even from the darkest of deeds such as this.

[Yvette Cooper]

I welcome the right hon. Member’s tributes to the bravery of those who were there—not only at the incident in Southport yesterday but at previous horrific attacks. They were called on to show great bravery in the most difficult circumstances, and we should recognise that. We should all recognise that there were adults there yesterday who did everything they could to protect children who were being attacked, and who faced awful circumstances themselves as a result. All of them will be in our hearts and in the hearts of people right across the country.