Birmingham Bin Strikes

Debate between Judith Cummins and Jim McMahon

Tuesday 22nd July 2025 Commons Chamber

[Jim McMahon]

I hear the hon. Member’s charac-terisation of the issue, but it bears no relationship at all to the reality of the situation. The council is an independent employer. It is not for the Government to go council by council negotiating trade union disputes or terms and condition changes. It is for the councils themselves as the employers to negotiate with their workforces, and that is exactly the same in Birmingham as for other councils, as he knows. The commissioners are of course appointed by Government and have to act with professional expertise in giving advice to the local authority on whether its plans are affordable and lawful, but the negotiations are taking place between the council itself, and Unite the trade union and the council’s workforce.

On this idea that we are scapegoating the workers in this dispute, no party has done more for workers’ rights than Labour. No Government have done more on workers’ rights in a generation than this Government, headed by the Deputy Prime Minister. When I hear Members of this House talking in a way that degrades that, that is a complete and absolute failure to accept not just the legacy we inherited as a Government—that includes, by the way, Birmingham city council and its local taxpayers—but our determination to put that right.

Finally, of course Birmingham could and should have made some big financial decisions much earlier. That is a matter of fact, and that is why commissioners are in there today. But the local government finance settlement had an increase in core spending power of 9.8%—that is, £131 million of additional money into Birmingham. That included the largest settlement through the recovery grant of any council in the country.

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Judith Cummins)]

I call the shadow Minister.

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[Jim McMahon]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for his questions, which I will try to answer in turn. Let me say, though, that we will take no lectures at all from the party that was in government for 14 years and saw the downgrading of local authorities across the country, including in Birmingham.

Although these are our commissioners, as the hon. Gentleman says—that is correct: they are Government appointed—let us not forget which Government appointed them. They were appointed on the watch of the previous Government. Today we are just announcing a change in the lead commissioner. We need to be careful not to politicise those people, who believe in public service and are helping out the local authority and supporting the Government in trying to turn that council around. Let us leave the politicisation of the commissioners to one side and deal with the facts.

Last time I was in the Chamber, the Conservatives were talking down the role of bin workers, as if somehow that work was degrading. At that time, I think they were suggesting that the armed forces might be brought in to collect waste and that that would somehow degrade their role. That was never going to be the case, but it was a glimpse into how the Conservatives view the workers who are affected. One thing that is absolutely certain is that the Labour party believes in the power of frontline workers and in the importance of these frontline roles. We absolutely value the role of refuse collectors, and we see the implications of waste not being collected. But we have got to be clear, too, that whatever settlement is on the table has to be lawful and affordable, and it cannot cross the red line of undermining the equal pay negotiations that are taking place. I hope that we can agree at least on that basis.

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Judith Cummins)]

I call the Chair of the Housing, Communities and Local Government Committee.

[Florence Eshalomi (Vauxhall and Camberwell Green) (Lab/Co-op)]

I thank the Minister for outlining the Government’s work to maintain vital collection services for residents, who want to see their city cleaned up rather than another summer of this, given the recent heatwave.

Strike action has now passed the six-month mark. As the Minister just outlined, it is important that we consider the hardship felt by many of the striking workers. Many of them do not want to politicise this; they just want to do the right thing by their families. One recently told the BBC:

“Morale’s quite low… Everyone’s trying to stay strong and together, but it is very difficult. The union has tried to help us out with strike pay, but for a lot of people it doesn’t cover their…bills. It puts a massive strain on our family. Kids, money—money’s tight, credit cards are maxed out”.

Nobody should be put in that position. I hear the Minister’s calls for the commissioners, Birmingham and the unions to resolve this issue, but what more can he and the Government do to bring everyone around the table so that we can finally bring an end to the dispute?

[Jim McMahon]

I thank the Chair of the Select Committee for her comments—we agree on much. She speaks to why a resolution on this issue is so important. At the heart of this, there are working people with rent and mortgages to pay, who want a resolution. To be clear, the council has been in negotiations over many months and has made a fair and reasonable offer to Unite, which, unfortunately, the union rejected. The council has also worked hard to offer options to affected workers, including their transfer to other roles in the council at the same grade, and, in some cases, has agreed to upskill in-scope workers. A generous redundancy package is available for those who wish to leave the service; we have seen an uptake in that. In the end, none of us wants this to roll on indefinitely; we want to see a resolution for the affected workers and for the taxpayers of Birmingham, who quite rightly expect their local public services to be delivered to a good standard.

[Madam Deputy Speaker]

I call the Liberal Democrat spokesperson.

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[Jim McMahon]

Whoever is negotiating in this environment will have the same guardrails as the local authority does. The local authority has to be mindful of the equal pay package that it has agreed with all the trade unions, and it cannot do anything in this very narrow dispute—however impactful it is on the workers and local residents—that means completely unravelling the equal pay package. I share the hon. Member’s concern about the impact, but it is important that the local authority and Unite the trade union continue those talks and try to find a resolution. With that being the final question, Madam Deputy Speaker, may I wish you and other Members of the House a peaceful recess?

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Judith Cummins)]

Thank you.

English Devolution

Debate between Judith Cummins and Jim McMahon

Monday 16th December 2024 Commons Chamber

[Jim McMahon]

I will come to some of the questions raised, but let nobody in the Chamber take lessons and lectures from the Conservatives when it comes to the perilous state that local government has been left in. Let us talk about the councils that were going bust left, right and centre on their watch. Let us talk about the fiscal discipline on 1,000-audit backlogs. What does that mean? It means £100 billion of public money that they could not account for, which held up the signing off of the national accounts. That was their legacy, and they talk about being custodians of public money—they did not even know where the money was.

What about the crisis that was building up in adult and children’s social care and in homelessness? At a time when we should have been thinking about prevention and reform and getting ahead of the problem, essentially the previous Government were making matters worse, not better. When Conservative Members talk about their legacy and being on the side of councillors, we should ask which Government it was that eroded the standards regime—its teeth were put completely to one side—leaving councillors open to abuse and intimidation and turning council chambers into hostile, toxic environments. Which Government was it that made councillors publish their home addresses when they were facing death threats?

We are doing the work now to repair the foundations of local government, giving it the funding that is needed. After a decade of year-by-year funding, we have given local government a multi-year financial settlement so that it can get its house in order as part of the rebuilding work. That is what is needed now: grown-up politics, a plan to fix the country and a plan to put local government back on its feet. But just doing that is not enough; we have to break the centralising system.

If a local authority wanted £1 million for a local project, the previous Government made them compete with their neighbouring council for a limited supply of money. The bidding wars that took place wasted millions of pounds of public money, and in the end they did not deliver on their core promise of levelling up. That was the agenda, and it has got to change. We have to change that cap-in-hand, parent-child relationship where power is hoarded at the centre.

The people queuing up to have conversations about reforming public services and devolving powers to mayoral combined authorities may not be Conservative Front Benchers, but they are Conservative council leaders who recognise that they finally have a Government on their side, willing to work in partnership to make the changes where the previous Government failed.

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Judith Cummins)]

I call the Chair of the Housing, Communities and Local Government Committee.

[Florence Eshalomi (Vauxhall and Camberwell Green) (Lab/Co-op)]

I thank the Minister for the statement. It is about how we bring local leaders back to the agenda and back to the central aims that they have been complaining about over the last 14 years. It is important that any devolution reforms build trust among local people, who rely on vital services from housing and planning to social care; the Minister must keep that in mind as he is going through the reforms.

Ultimately, some councils may fear that residents’ voices in smaller district areas will be lost if they are absorbed into larger unitary authorities. Will the Minister outline how he will ensure that residents do not feel disenfranchised by losing representation in their community? Will he assure the House that, should residents choose not to adopt a mayoral model, they will not be disadvantaged?

We know that our frontline services are at breaking point, as the Minister outlined, and many will welcome the multi-year settlement, but we do not want to see adult social care and temporary accommodation—all those areas—becoming stuck between a disbanding district authority and a nebulous unitary authority. Will the Minister assure the House that there will be proper accountability during the reorganisation and that we will not see local residents and councillors left in limbo?

[Jim McMahon]

I thank the Chair of the Select Committee for that very important point about how we maintain public trust and confidence in a period of change. First, local government representations to Government will be self-organised within counties, and we will receive the recommendations and requests that come forward. We will write to all 21 areas in scope to invite them to make representations to be part of the first wave priority programme. From the conversations that we have had, we expect a significant number of local authorities to want to be part of that reorganisation. But to be clear, that is not something that we are imposing. We are writing out and local areas are self-organising, because they understand that reform and modernisation are central.

When it comes to not losing a local voice, the White Paper makes it very clear that the devolution offer is not just about creating new structures, and it is certainly not about creating new politicians. This has to be a genuine shift of power. There is a big section on community power, because a lot of people—and this may even transcend the previous Government—do not feel power in the places where they live. Quite often they feel that things are done to them and, when they see the decline of high streets and town centres, they feel that the change is going one way, and it is not good. The paper is about rebuilding local community power. Our expectation in the White Paper is clear that, regardless of the size of local authority, every council—including existing unitaries—will work out a way of getting to those local communities at neighbourhood level, and reflect in a democratic way and a public service way how best to give local people a voice.

[Madam Deputy Speaker]

I call the Liberal Democrat spokesperson.

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Judith Cummins)]

Before I call the Minister, I remind Members that time is at a premium, and I want to be able to get everybody in.

[Jim McMahon]

I thank the Liberal Democrat spokesperson for her question, and for her service as an elected council member for a period. I understand that there will be concerns about the move to larger unitaries, but the fact is that there is a two-tier premium that the taxpayer is paying. At a time when resources are limited, we have a responsibility to take money from councils’ overhead costs in the back office and bring them to the frontline to give people good neighbourhood services. I suspect that if people were asked, “Would you prefer the existing two-tier system or more money being directed at local public services?”, most would want the money to go into local public services. However, there is a balance here, and it is for local areas to find it.

We are very clear in the White Paper that we want to move away from councillors being perceived as back-bench. We want to reform them, essentially, as frontline councillors —as the conveners of a community, with greater power and influence and the ability to get things done.

On social care, an additional £4 billion was provided in the Budget, with the provisional settlement to be announced this week. Of that amount, £600 million is for a recovery grant to go to areas with high deprivation but low tax bases, to ensure that we rebalance fairness in the system.

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[Jim McMahon]

I pay tribute to leaders in Cumbria for the engagement that we have had with them; I recognise that they have just been through a local government reorganisation and that there has been a lot to settle in the area. They have embraced our conversations with great maturity, and those conversations have been fruitful, but we recognise that different places are at different points. Different places have different pressures that they need to reconcile, which is why we are looking at a priority programme for the areas that will soon be ready to go. We need to get the legislation and consultation in place and make the case to the public. We accept that some areas will need longer.

On mayors, I have been here long enough to see a number of Members stand up and protest against the idea of a mayor, only to pop up a bit later as the candidate for the same position, so I say to people in Cumbria: be careful what you wish for.

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Judith Cummins)]

I remind the House that we have around 40 minutes, and around 40 Members wish to speak, so please keep answers and questions succinct.

Universal Credit Sanctions

Debate between Judith Cummins and Jim McMahon

Monday 4th December 2017 Commons Chamber

[Jim McMahon (Oldham West and Royton) (Lab/Co-op)]

I thank those Members who are staying to listen to the debate. I realise that it is very late at night, but this is an important issue that affects many people—far more than we would want to be affected. Ideally, we would not be having the debate. We hoped that by now the Government would have listened to the calls for the universal credit programme to be paused so that they could learn lessons, take stock of where we are, and fix an arrangement that ought to be providing a decent service and simplifying the benefits system.

After the great war, William Beveridge declared that there were five giants on the road to reconstruction: poverty, disease, ignorance, squalor and idleness. To tackle those five giants, a new, radical response was needed—a response big enough to meet head on the challenges of the day that risked Britain’s future. Furthermore, Beveridge set a vision for a new settlement between the rights of citizens, the role of the Government, and the formation and foundation of public services. It was a balance of roles and responsibilities, rights and obligations, and an expectation that if Britain was to succeed, there must be investment in its foundations.

The challenges that face Britain today, although different, are as big. Our economy is weak and reliant on low wages, low skills and insecure employment. We might sweeten the bitter reality by making it sound cutting-edge—by calling it the gig economy rather than exploitation —or by affixing power to the workers when in fact many of them are powerless, but at its heart is a weak foundation of exploitation and low value that fails to respect a basic belief on which I was raised: a fair day’s wage for a fair day’s work.

Why is this important? It is important because people should be able to earn enough to live—not just to get by, but to be comfortable and enjoy life: to have a nice meal, a holiday, a reliable car, a decent, secure home and a healthy family, and, crucially, to live in a country that invests to ensure that the next generation does even better than the one that went before. We should have a society in which fairness runs through everything we do. There should be a balanced contribution, with equal dividends for those who pay their fair share.

[Judith Cummins (Bradford South) (Lab)]

Does my hon. Friend agree that the new sanctions in the universal credit system punish the working poor, especially low-paid workers?

[Jim McMahon]

The evidence says that—it says that working families are worse off under universal credit, and not because of its technocratic elements, but because the Government made a deliberate decision to make sure the financial crisis would be borne by those who could least afford it. They are people who are going out to work and doing what is asked of them but, as hard as they try, they cannot make ends meet because the odds are stacked against them and the Government are not on their side. That is what people in Oldham tell me, and that is what people in Oldham feel when they work very long hours and do not see the reward from doing that.