Jonathan Lord
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Citizenship (Armed Forces) Bill
Jonathan Lord Excerpts(11 years, 3 months ago)
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Jonathan Lord (Woking) (Con)
I beg to move, That the Bill be now read a Second time.
The Bill is brief and to the point—it has just two clauses. It seeks to amend the British Nationality Act 1981 to ensure that foreign and Commonwealth citizens in the forces who wish to apply for naturalisation as a British citizen under section 6(1) are not disadvantaged because of time served overseas. In order to apply for naturalisation as a British citizen under section 6(1), a person must have been resident in the United Kingdom for the previous five years. The Secretary of State has the discretion to disregard time spent outside the United Kingdom during that period, but an applicant must, in all cases, have been in the United Kingdom at the beginning of the period. That means that foreign and Commonwealth citizens in the armed forces who are posted overseas may have to wait longer than those who remain in the United Kingdom.
Sir Edward Leigh (Gainsborough) (Con)
I have been trying to understand the Bill. Is the key moment the precise moment at the end of the five years? Is that the law under the 1981 Act? It is unclear to me, and I am sure that my hon. Friend can explain it to the House.
Jonathan Lord
The key point is that under the 1981 Act a foreigner or Commonwealth citizen applying for naturalisation—the pass to British citizenship—has to have been in the UK on the exact date five years prior to making that application. Of course, it is invidious that a foreign or Commonwealth soldier serving Queen and country in our armed forces overseas, perhaps even in a conflict zone, should not be able to make such an application when other soldiers based in the UK or other men and women living in the UK would be able to do so.
Mel Stride (Central Devon) (Con)
I congratulate my hon. Friend on bringing this important Bill before the House. Does he know how many armed forces personnel have fallen foul of what appears to be an unfortunate anomaly in the 1981 Act?
Jonathan Lord
It is indeed an anomaly. Currently, more than 9,000 foreign and Commonwealth persons are serving in our armed forces. I am sure that everyone in the House would wish to pay tribute to them for the wonderful work they do, putting themselves in danger for the sake of our national security—and for the sake of international security, too. Our armed forces do not go just into conflict or act defensively: they also go into very difficult areas and try to bring peace.
The Bill will probably affect only a few hundred people a year at most. Not everyone of foreign or Commonwealth nationality who serves in our armed forces wishes to naturalise as a British citizen, but for those who do, I hope that the House will support the idea that they should not be discriminated against because of the anomaly that my hon. Friend so perceptively outlines.
Mel Stride
My hon. Friend refers, rightly, to the sense of discrimination that some members of our armed forces will feel at having fallen foul of this anomaly. Does he foresee the possibility of an amendment in Committee to do something for those who have fallen foul of that particular aspect of the naturalisation requirements by expediting their applications compared to those who were not caught by that anomaly?
Jonathan Lord
I am reminded by people with much more experience in the House than I have that it is unwise to accept unnecessary amendments to private Members’ Bills. The bar is already high enough for getting such a Bill on to the statute book. That said, it is an issue that we should look at. The key point is that the Bill would remedy the deficit that we have identified, and any armed services personnel from foreign or Commonwealth countries would not suffer such discrimination.
Mr Christopher Chope (Christchurch) (Con)
As I understand it, the Government said in the Queen’s Speech that they would introduce an immigration Bill, which could include nationality issues. Surely this proposal would be much better suited to that Bill, as we could then have a full range of amendments, including the one to which my hon. Friend the Member for Central Devon (Mel Stride) referred.
Jonathan Lord
The key point is that the Bill would remedy a simple problem. I know, from having talked to the Minister, that the planned nationality Bill will have specific needs in mind, and he would not necessarily wish to take on board this aspect of immigration issues in case it perhaps encouraged more mischievous amendments and additions.
Guy Opperman (Hexham) (Con)
I congratulate my hon. Friend on introducing the Bill, as it covers an issue that we should clearly pursue under the armed forces covenant. Does he have any information about support from the various Army charities for this proposal?
Jonathan Lord
I am pleased to say that most of the major Army charities, which do such wonderful work supporting our service personnel, our ex-service personnel and their families, are very supportive of the Bill. Like other hon. Members, I attend Remembrance day services and rattle tins for the Royal British Legion—the local branches in Woking and other areas of Surrey are hugely supportive of the Bill.
Veterans Aid, an important charity in this area, has said of the Bill:
“We warmly welcome any initiative that removes obstacles to those who have served this country with honour from settling here legally and have campaigned on this issue. Veterans Aid, more than any other military charity, has championed the cause of Foreign & Commonwealth servicemen and women disadvantaged, through no fault of their own, by bureaucracy that is demonstrably at odds with the spirit of the Military Covenant. This was an injustice and we applaud the Government and Jonathan Lord for listening. We still have many cases in being but this will definitely help us move things forward for quite a few of our clients.”
Mr Chope
I am sorry to return to my earlier intervention, but if this change is supported by the Government, why do they not bring this measure forward in their immigration Bill? Then we would be able to test whether this very narrow Bill is too narrow and should be extended to a wider range of people. For example, a constituent of mine married a Russian citizen and they have been working in Russia in the UK interest for 18 years. Because they have been working outside the country, that lady cannot get British citizenship without coming back to the UK.
Jonathan Lord
I think I answered that point clearly before. I am very happy with the narrow definition of the Bill. Its aims are clear to everyone, and it would do what it says on the tin. It is welcomed by military and veterans charities, and I believe it is welcomed across the House.
Harriett Baldwin (West Worcestershire) (Con)
I hope that the Bill will make progress, but can my hon. Friend make it clear that when we are talking about an exception for someone who is not in the UK at the beginning of the five-year period after which they apply for British citizenship, the reason for them not being here would have to be that they were serving in our armed forces? Is not that the difference between the Bill and the point made by my hon. Friend the Member for Christchurch (Mr Chope)?
Jonathan Lord
My hon. Friend makes a very good point. That is absolutely the case. It is my understanding that the Government and all other parties will support the Bill, given the cross-party support for the armed forces covenant, and agree that the issue is best addressed through a private Member’s Bill. I do not know exactly what Bills on immigration and nationality the Government intend to introduce. That is a matter for the Government and as Back Benchers we will have to wait and see, but I am extremely happy and honoured to try to pilot the Bill through the House and, with cross-party support, hopefully on to the statute book.
Jonathan Lord
My hon. Friend makes a fair point—the Bill has the complete support of the Government. It is also in keeping with measures the previous Government were starting to talk about, and with the will of the House as expressed by Committees and sub-committees. There is a wish to ensure that the armed services covenant is not just fine words. Where there are anomalies, with service personnel or ex-service personnel being disadvantaged, they must be put right as soon as possible. If the Bill progresses, we will be able to do that before the introduction of any Government legislation on nationality and immigration. That is surely to be welcomed.
Margot James (Stourbridge) (Con)
I congratulate my hon. Friend on introducing the Bill. Can he reassure me that the Government support his proposals? I have read the annual report published in 2012 on the progress of the military covenant, and it seems that the Government are doing a great deal to remove areas of discrimination, and even putting in special measures for the armed forces. It would, therefore, seem anomalous for this area not to be dealt with as part of our ongoing commitment to the military covenant.
Jonathan Lord
My hon. Friend makes a valuable point. I look forward to hearing the Minister’s speech, but he is on the record as saying:
“It is simply wrong that any member of our armed forces should have to wait longer to gain British citizenship just because, on a specific date five years before applying, he or she was posted overseas protecting our country. Making this change was a priority commitment under the Armed Forces Covenant and I am delighted to support this Bill which will ensure that service men and women are not disadvantaged.”
Returning to the point made by my hon. Friend the Member for Hexham (Guy Opperman), it is not just Veterans Aid and the Royal British Legion that support the Bill. The Army Families Federation supports Army families, serving both personnel and ex-service personnel. It said:
“This legislation will make a big difference to the many soldiers and their spouses who are currently prohibited from applying for Citizenship because they were serving overseas or were on operations at the start of the 5 year residential period. The current rule has been disproportionately disadvantaging members of HM Forces and their families for many years, and the AFF is fully supportive of the proposed changes”.
I welcome that support from one of our most important charities.
Mel Stride
My hon. Friend is making a powerful case. I am gratified that a number of military charities clearly support the Bill. I am not aware of any military-focused charities that are against it. Will he confirm that, to the best of his knowledge, that is the case?
Jonathan Lord
I am not aware that any charities, military or otherwise, are against the Bill. I am sure that if any charities that are unaware of the Bill were to listen to the debate—which I hope will have cross-party support—they would also be convinced of its merit, alongside our wonderful military charities.
The Bill will give the Secretary of State the discretion to waive the requirement that an applicant for naturalisation should have been in the United Kingdom at the beginning of the five-year residence period as laid out under the 1981 Act. This will apply only to those who are, or have been, members of the armed forces. This will ensure that all foreign and Commonwealth citizens who are serving, or have served, in the forces are able to apply for naturalisation on equal terms, regardless of whether they were posted in the UK or abroad.
Jonathan Lord
The Bill will apply to cases from now on. By definition, those applying for citizenship under the naturalisation rule have to have been in the UK five years before, so it is definitely for all cases going forward. I hope the Minister will help me by ensuring that we know about any potential retrospective action.
Mel Stride
Just to clarify, where an individual has fallen foul of the anomaly under the 1981 Act and has subsequently left the country, and is therefore not in the country at the point of an application the day after the Bill is passed, would the clock have to start again, or would it be enough that they would have qualified had the anomaly not existed?
Jonathan Lord
The Bill gives the Secretary of State more discretion than he has had hitherto, but we are trying to look forward more than we are trying to look back. We cannot remedy all anomalies, but I am sure that the Minister will have a view on how the Secretary of State would use that discretion for past cases.
To apply for naturalisation under section 6(1) of the 1981 Act, a person must have been resident in the United Kingdom for the previous five years. While the Secretary of State has the discretion to disregard time spent outside the UK during that period, an applicant currently must, in all cases, have been in the UK at the beginning of that five-year period. That means that foreign and Commonwealth citizens serving in our armed forces who are posted overseas may have to wait longer than those who remain in the UK before being able to naturalise as British citizens, and that cannot be right.
The Bill implements a Government commitment in the armed forces covenant 2011 for new legislation to be introduced to enable foreign and Commonwealth service personnel to be exempted from the requirement to be in the UK at the start of that residential period for naturalisation as a British citizen, if in service on that date. Clause 2 sets out clearly the territorial extent of the Bill: England and Wales, Scotland, Northern Ireland, the Channel Islands, the Isle of Man and the British overseas territories.
Both clauses would come into force two months after the Bill receives Royal Assent. It is not anticipated that the Bill will lead to additional public expenditure. With regard to public sector manpower, no changes are expected to staffing at the Home Office, which is the Department responsible for processing applications for naturalisation. The Bill is not regarded as having any regulatory impact, nor will it lead to costs or savings for business, public or civil society organisations, regulators or consumers. It is a pleasure to introduce the Bill to the House this morning. I pay tribute to the work of the Home Affairs (Armed Forces Covenant) Sub-Committee, which mentioned the desirability of the measure in October 2010. It has the benefit of Government support and, I very much hope, cross-party support, too.
The enshrinement of the armed forces covenant in UK law in 2011 was a good moment in the three years that I have served as Member of Parliament for Woking, and I am sure that many Members across the House feel the same. The Government and Parliament have a moral obligation to their servicemen and women, who are asked to risk their lives for our country. That obligation extends well beyond the time when each of them leaves the Army, the Royal Navy or the Royal Air Force. Parliament chose to enshrine two key principles in law: first, that it is desirable that members or former members of the armed forces suffer no disadvantages arising from their time served in the military; and secondly, that special provision for them may be justified in certain circumstances. These are fundamental principles that reflect our country’s high esteem for the military and its personnel, and the important and sometimes difficult and dangerous work they do.
I am fortunate to have the Pirbright barracks in my constituency, which, with the arrival of the 1st Battalion the Welsh Guards, will shortly have an additional 600 service personnel and their families. A guardsman who has served with the battalion for the last 10 years will have been on tours to Northern Ireland, Iraq, Bosnia, Kosovo and Afghanistan, which will have been interspersed with firefighting, training and exercises all over the world. In addition, they will have carried out state ceremonial and public duties, demonstrating the busy nature of our modern armed forces. Indeed, the 1st Battalion the Welsh Guards has done two tours of Bosnia and two tours of Afghanistan. They are brave servicemen and women.
Mel Stride
My hon. Friend rightly refers to the brave men and women in our armed forces in his constituency who perform such services for our country. Earlier he mentioned their role in defending and fighting for our country, but do not a number of the examples he has given show that, equally, they are important in bringing peace to many people outside our country? For that reason, as well as the service they do for our country, we should treat them fairly and decently.
Jonathan Lord
My hon. Friend makes an important point. It is not just the citizens of this country who owe our armed forces a great debt of gratitude, but many citizens in warzones and, occasionally, those affected in times of famine or by an earthquake. We salute all the hard work, dedication and bravery of our armed forces personnel.
It will be a great honour to have the Welsh Guards come to Pirbright, but the Pirbright facility also includes the largest initial training site in the Army, which trains all female recruits over the age of 17 and the majority of male recruits. The facilities at the centre—I have seen them myself—are superb and have benefited much from recent upgrades. There are new classrooms, an education centre, a swimming pool, a well-equipped gym, all-weather outdoor sports pitches, and medical and rehabilitation facilities. It was a pleasure to visit the Army training camp and see the wonderful work done there. Our young people, aged 17 or 18, go there as ordinary citizens and come out, only a few weeks later, as members of our armed forces, trained to a high standard. I was extremely impressed with everything that I saw and learnt there.
Indeed, unlike some of the visits that we occasionally make to places in our constituencies, my visit was organised in true military fashion. I had to report at 10:00 hours. Every five minutes of the day was marked out for my instruction and there were drivers on hand in case of inclement weather. It was really quite impressive. If the Army inculcate that sort of spit-and-polish attitude in our young people, they will come out not just as potential worthy fighters in our armed forces, but as better, more upright and more organised citizens, which bodes well for them and the future of our country.
Harriett Baldwin
This is an interesting anecdote. I am proud to have participated in the armed forces parliamentary scheme since I was elected. On visiting a base—which should perhaps remain nameless—I was given athletic clothes, including a very short pair of shorts, and asked to take the fitness test. Can my hon. Friend enlighten me as to whether he had a similar experience when he visited the base in his constituency?
Mr Speaker
Order. The personal experience of the hon. Member for West Worcestershire (Harriett Baldwin) is undoubtedly an enervating one for her and of great interest to the House, but I know that in responding to the intervention the hon. Member for Woking (Jonathan Lord) will not be tempted to dilate upon the matter, but will focus his attention on the content of the Citizenship (Armed Forces) Bill.
Jonathan Lord
I am grateful to you, Mr Speaker. I am interested to hear of my hon. Friend’s experiences I was told to bring muddy boots, but I am pleased to say that there was no fitness test and my muddy boots were not needed.
Pirbright, along with our other Army training camps, has a big role to play in helping to make our troops the best trained in the world. As their representative in the mother of Parliaments, I wish to know that they will be treated well by the Government, the laws of the land and all our public services, both during and after their time served.
Margot James
My hon. Friend has spoken powerfully about the sacrifices that our armed forces make and the way in which they risk their lives in conflict around the world. Does he agree that they also make an enormous contribution to society in emergencies? I am thinking in particular about the Olympics last year, when the country was let down by a private company that was going to provide security. We had to reach for our armed forces, which were there without delay. Indeed, in many cases, personnel had to sacrifice their annual leave to go and serve the country in that important endeavour.
Jonathan Lord
I thank my hon. Friend for that point, which she makes extremely well. The armed forces are at the service of our country and its citizens, and they never, ever seem to let us down.
Mel Stride
My hon. Friend is being very generous in giving way. He is right to stress the dedication, excellence, training and commitment of those in our armed forces, and although they are well looked after in terms of remuneration, salary and pay, they are not very, very well looked after. Is not that, along with their dedication, yet another reason why they should be looked after properly in the way that his Bill seeks to do?
Jonathan Lord
My hon. Friend makes an excellent and important point.
I have invited the troops stationed at Pirbright to come and have tours of the House—I am sure everyone else has similar experiences—and have participated in seminars, and so on. When they next visit me, I know that they will be extremely pleased—and perhaps even a little proud of their Member of Parliament—that this Bill has been introduced. That is another reason why I hope the House will support it today.
We have the armed forces covenant, but there is still progress to be made on the way in which we treat our armed forces personnel. However, the Government are to be commended for the action that they have taken since May 2010, and I am pleased that the Minister for Immigration is here to support this contribution to the development of the law on the obligations underwritten by the armed forces covenant.
Mr Chope
Will my hon. Friend explain the ambit of the term “armed forces”? Will it, for example, cover the support staff, engineers and technicians who support our armed forces? Let us take as an example the base at Akrotiri. How many of the people working on that base will be covered by the Bill?
Jonathan Lord
It is my understanding that all those serving in the armed forces will come under the aegis of the Bill, but they will have to be members of the armed forces; it will not cover a local cook or a local cleaner supporting a barracks.
Harriett Baldwin
Will my hon. Friend clarify whether the Bill will cover members of the Army Reserve?
Jonathan Lord
My understanding is that it would cover such people, but I look to the Minister to give us a little more clarification on that point. The key thing is that a person will have to be serving in our armed forces to be covered. It is my understanding that Army reservists are very much a part of our armed forces. I have to say, however, that we would be unlikely to find foreign or Commonwealth citizens serving in our reserve forces. They tend to join the full armed forces, rather than the reserves. It is a full-time vocation and a full-time job, and we want to recognise their hard work and dedication.
Sir Edward Leigh
Will my hon. Friend clarify what will happen when the Bill has become an Act? Someone will have to have been a fully fledged member of the armed forces for five years, but it will not matter where they were during the five years before they apply for naturalisation. Will they, at that point, have an automatic right to become a British citizen unless they have misbehaved? I am sure that that is right, but I was unable to find that fact in the Library.
Jonathan Lord
At that point, the person would follow the normal naturalisation process for citizenship. The key point is that a member of the armed services will be able to apply even if they have been posted abroad.
Sir Edward Leigh
I presume, though, that once they have done their five years and applied for naturalisation, they will pretty much have an absolute right to become a British citizen. Has my hon. Friend discussed this interesting point with the Minister?
Jonathan Lord
I have a large amount of notes relating to the naturalisation process and all the disqualifications that could block the path to British citizenship of a member of the armed forces. Factors such as dishonourable discharge and criminality could lead to disqualification, along with all the other kinds of things that one would expect a potential citizen of this country to be judged on, whether they were a soldier or a civilian.
Guy Opperman
The key point is that time spent overseas has placed people at a disadvantage. The new legislation could well apply to some of those at the barracks at Albemarle in Northumberland. The regiment that is now stationed there is moving to another part of the country, and a new regiment is coming in from Germany. Some members of that regiment could be covered by the Bill. The time that they have spent overseas is the key factor.
Jonathan Lord
I am grateful to my hon. Friend for bringing us back to the key point of the Bill with a good local example of how it will work.
The Minister for Immigration (Mr Mark Harper)
I should like to assist the House on the point raised by my hon. Friend the Member for Gainsborough (Sir Edward Leigh). I ask him to hold on to the thought about naturalisation requirements, because I shall touch on them in my remarks at the end of the debate. I shall clarify how the current rules work, and how we expect them to work in the future. I hope that that will be helpful.
Margot James
I am sorry to bring my hon. Friend back to the point raised by my hon. Friend the Member for Gainsborough (Sir Edward Leigh), but I wonder what his view is of another anomaly in the same area. If a member of the armed forces seeking British citizenship had contravened the law while in the service of our country but not in a way that would even have merited a police caution if the offence had been committed in civil society, that would be a ground for refusal. Does he agree that that seems rather unfair?
Jonathan Lord
I hesitate to use up all our available time discussing the regulations. As I have said, I have notes on the naturalisation routes to citizenship for ordinary civilians and for armed services personnel. The clear intention of the Home Office and our immigration services is to ensure that there is a level playing field, and that the armed services are not disadvantaged in relation to civilians. I believe that that is what the House would like to see. Of course, cases of dishonourable discharge or criminality would count against a member of the armed forces, just as breaking the law would disadvantage a civilian seeking to become a citizen of this country. The same rules will apply regarding the amount of money a person will need to earn in order to support himself, and his wife and his family if he has one. Those rules will be the same for armed services personnel as for civilians from a foreign or Commonwealth background. I hope that that reassures my hon. Friend. The Home Office and our immigration services take a fair-handed view in this regard, but the major anomaly in the British Nationality Act 1981 has to be put right.
Mel Stride
Is it not significant that when someone applying for naturalisation has not previously fallen foul of the anomaly in the 1981 Act, the public and Parliament have not generally been overly vexed by the rules? My hon. Friend’s Bill will simply bring those who do fall foul of the anomaly into line with those who do not, so the new arrangements will presumably be acceptable, as they are already acceptable as currently applied to others.
Jonathan Lord
I largely accept that point. The important thing is to ensure that our armed services personnel are not disadvantaged. I am sure that previous armed forces personnel have been able to apply, but it has taken them longer than the armed forces personnel who were situated in the UK during the relevant part of their service five years before, or indeed than others living in this country who were not serving in the armed forces. It is quite wrong for armed service personnel to be disadvantaged in that way.
Although the Bill has a rather grandiose title—the Citizenship (Armed Forces) Bill—which might initially have led Members to think that I was proposing some grand and far-reaching changes to the citizenship or nationality regulations for members of the armed forces, I hope that it is now clear that my intentions are far humbler. This is a small but sensible Bill.
Margot James
I think my hon. Friend is being too modest. Although the changes are narrow in scope and in terms of the number of people affected, these provisions will directly affect, as I think my hon. Friend mentioned, some 200 serving members of our armed forces and their families. For those individuals, I would suggest, the changes that my hon. Friend is proposing are indeed far ranging and far reaching.
Jonathan Lord
I am extremely grateful to my hon. Friend for that intervention, with which I of course agree absolutely. For those families affected—my hon. Friend is absolutely right that 200 is a realistic estimate—this Bill will make all the difference in the world. While we in this mother of Parliaments are incredibly proud to serve our constituents, the reason many people want to serve in our armed forces is that they know that this country has, over many years, served the cause of decency, democracy and the rule of law. If they are willing to put their lives on the line for this country and all that it stands for, I am sure that they would be equally proud, as my hon. Friend the Member for Central Devon (Mel Stride) said, of the day on which they and their families took British citizenship.
Guy Opperman
Following what my hon. Friend the Member for Stourbridge (Margot James) said, does my hon. Friend agree that it is not just a matter of the families? Most of the soldiers I meet and talk to in the barracks in my constituency say that their true loyalty is not just to their family, but to the regiment and their battalion. I suggest that from the Army point of view, this is about not just the individual soldier and his family, but about the corps of the battalion and an individual soldier who is not a British citizen feeling part of the unit. Does my hon. Friend agree?
Jonathan Lord
Yes, absolutely. The regiment, the battalion and the way in which our armed forces tend to be arranged into smaller units, many of which have a distinguished history behind them and a wonderful record of service ahead of them, are all very important. That should make us reflect on how the relevant armed service personnel must think when they fill out a form and find out that they are disadvantaged because they were posted abroad five years ago in the service of their regiment or battalion. The whole ethos of this country, the battalion, the regiment and unit goes out of the window the moment these people put pen to paper on that form and realise that, by a quirk of bureaucracy and a small defect in the British Nationality Act 1981, they are at a disadvantage by comparison with other service personnel who served here or, indeed, any other ordinary citizens with a foreign or Commonwealth background who are able to go through the process of naturalisation and citizenship. What a terrible shock that must be for those people and their families.
Mel Stride
The terrible shock to which my hon. Friend refers is presumably exacerbated when someone who was away five years to the day prior to making an application was actually on the front line overseas, perhaps fighting in extremely dangerous circumstances and laying their life on the line at a time when others who are not caught by this anomaly in the 1981 Act might have been back here in the UK in far safer and more desirable circumstances.
Jonathan Lord
I could not agree more with my hon. Friend. That is the key point to which this House needs to address itself. What my hon. Friend describes would be a travesty, and I am sure that it has happened to service personnel posted abroad. I read out the example of the overseas service of soldiers from 1st Battalion the Welsh Guards, who will shortly be based in my constituency. As I said, they have seen service overseas in Bosnia, Afghanistan and in many other conflict zones. It is quite invidious that when it comes to their path to citizenship, they should be penalised for their service in such dangerous territories at such difficult times.
Mr Chope
My hon. Friend describes a situation in which it seems as if almost everybody in the Welsh Guards is a foreigner. Surely we are talking about very small numbers of people. At a time when our armed forces are being reduced in number and it is becoming more difficult for people to get into the armed forces, should not the policy of the Government be to ensure, as far as possible, that British people rather than foreign people join our armed forces?
Jonathan Lord
My hon. Friend makes an interesting point. There are more than 9,000 foreign and Commonwealth personnel in our armed forces. A little later in my speech, I shall go into more detail about some of the nationalities that the Bill is most likely to affect. I think it important for young British men and women to see the merits of serving their country, and I would certainly encourage them to sign up, but I would also say that some of our bravest and best soldiers in the past have been from the Commonwealth or even occasionally from non-Commonwealth foreign countries.
I recently attended a morning of prayer at the Muslim burial grounds in my constituency. This event was for soldiers from India who had served in the first world war, when the Germans had put around the rumour that if those people were killed in battle, they would not receive a proper burial. In my constituency it was clear even that long ago that there were brave men and women of what later came to be called Commonwealth origin fighting just as hard on European battlefields for Queen and country, democracy and the rule of law and against aggression as we have seen in more recent years. Clearly, this history and tradition of service in our armed forces of foreign and Commonwealth personnel goes back a long way, and I do not think that our Army should discriminate unduly against these incredible young men and women from overseas who want to carry on that tradition. As I shall explain later, it is mainly just a few nationalities that have had this wonderful tradition of serving in our armed forces so gallantly in the past. I see no reason why they should not continue to do so equally gallantly in the future.
Margot James
My hon. Friend has covered the point I intended to make, but does he agree that, during the second world war, were it not for the efforts of Commonwealth members of the armed forces, who were only too willing to act just as he describes, this country would have been in a sorry mess? My father served for three and a half years in India during the second world war, and he knew that fellow armed service personnel from India were crucial to our endeavours. It is also the case that many other ancillary staff who supported British troops in India made a valuable contribution to our war effort.
Jonathan Lord
I am grateful to my hon. Friend for that excellent point. I entirely agree about the contribution of foreign and Commonwealth soldiers to our armed forces—not only in the second world war as she mentions, but in the first world war. In all major military endeavours between those times and since, such soldiers, with close links to this country—and, indeed, the ancillary staff without which no army, air force or ship goes into battle—have made a very important contribution. I am very grateful to my hon. Friend for her point.
It was Claudius, the first Roman emperor to be born outside Italy, who introduced Roman citizenship for the retiring auxiliary soldier and all his children. In exchange for 25 years of honourable service, a veteran was given a double-sided bronze plaque, which granted him citizenship and a few other particular privileges, such as the right to marry—I will not go into recent issues relating to marriage in detail today; I suspect that in Roman times that meant traditional marriage.
Our immigration laws today are modelled on very different principles, and rightly so. There is no automatic right to citizenship from service in the armed forces. It is right and fair that cases should be looked at on their individual merits, but we can certainly all agree that military service should not be grounds for disadvantage in this process. There is an important principle at stake: when soldiers have risked their lives serving in the British armed forces abroad, no member of the armed forces family should be at any disadvantage in the provision of public or commercial services, or in the eyes of the law, especially not with regard to citizenship. That is what is enshrined in our armed forces covenant, and that is what the Bill seeks to do with regard to the path to citizenship. No soldier or former soldier should be penalised when applying for citizenship because they have been serving our country abroad.
There is currently a requirement that applicants for UK citizenship must have been in the UK on the date five years before an application for naturalisation. That requirement disadvantages a member of Her Majesty’s armed forces who was on an overseas posting at the relevant time. There is already a provision to waive the requirement in Crown service cases—which would include service in Her Majesty’s forces—but that applies only to those who are still in service and still overseas when they apply, and in practice it is applied only on an exceptional basis.
Harriett Baldwin
Will my hon. Friend clarify the territorial extent of the legislation, which the Bill refers to as England and Wales, Scotland, Northern Ireland, the Channel Islands, the Isle of Man and—there is a list of these—the British overseas territories? Is it the intention that those are the places where the applicant might want to settle and naturalise—I assume that they are not the places where the applicant might have to be serving in the armed forces? What does he mean by the territorial extent of the Bill?
Jonathan Lord
I am grateful to my hon. Friend for raising that query. I can confirm that those are the places where the person might wish to naturalise. The service overseas can be anywhere on the planet—and beyond, were we ever to get involved in star wars.
Mel Stride
My hon. Friend is making a powerful case for the Bill. On a narrow point, will he confirm that the benefits and rights conferred by British citizenship in these cases would be exactly the same as those for all naturalised individuals who gain citizenship, whether or not they are members of the armed forces?
Jonathan Lord
Yes, that is essentially the case, although I hope that when the Home Office or immigration officials look at a case, if it is one that is on the borderline of the path to citizenship, they will look kindly on service in our armed forces, because it is a noble calling that should be recognised as part of the process.
Mel Stride
In the same spirit of looking kindly at such circumstances, does my hon. Friend not feel that where an individual had fallen foul of the anomaly in the 1981 Act previously, and had failed in their first application for that reason, the authorities might look more kindly on the second application as a consequence?
Jonathan Lord
I feel sure that that will indeed be the case.
The Bill will also cover members and former members of Her Majesty’s forces who subsequently have been discharged and/or have returned to the UK.
Harriett Baldwin
If my hon. Friend will forgive me for returning to the issue I raised earlier on the British overseas territories, there is a special case, to which my hon. Friend the Member for Christchurch (Mr Chope) has referred, for the sovereign bases at Akrotiri and Dhekelia, which are classified as British dependent territories but are not counted as qualifying territories for nationality purposes. Will those two sovereign bases be included in the territorial extent of the legislation?
Jonathan Lord
I am happy to tell my hon. Friend that they would indeed be included, and I am grateful to her for raising that point.
It cannot be fair that a regular civilian or a solider who has been based in the UK can successfully apply for residency but a soldier who was serving in Afghanistan, or a member of the Royal Air Force or the Royal Navy who was posted overseas five years before his or her application, cannot successfully apply for residency. Every day that members of the services have spent abroad should have the same value in the eyes of the immigration authorities as a day spent in the UK.
Guy Opperman
Is this not all part of what the armed forces covenant is about? It is about a situation existing for servicemen and women in which they are not treated differently from ordinary citizens in this country.
Jonathan Lord
That is the clear thrust of the Bill and the debate today. I hope that all Members listening will take that point on board and come to the ineluctable conclusion that what the Bill proposes is only fair.
In answer to a question asked earlier, the main nationalities that are likely to benefit from this measure will be Fijian, Jamaican, South African, Zimbabwean and Ghanaian, since they are the main foreign and Commonwealth nationals represented in Her Majesty’s armed forces. I am pleased to say that, in addition, Nepalese nationals who have served in the Brigade of Gurkhas will also benefit. Although Gurkhas are required to remain citizens of Nepal while serving in the Brigade of Gurkhas, those seeking naturalisation following discharge will fall within the scope of the new provision. I hope that in addition to the military and veterans’ charities that I have mentioned, that national icon, Joanna Lumley, will also look favourably on the Bill, and on the House if it decides to pass it.
The measures in the Bill will correct an unfairness that Parliament committed to resolve when it enshrined the armed forces covenant in law. I hope that, with the approval of Members, the Bill will send out a further signal to those servicemen and women who hold a UK passport, and to those who do not, that the public and their representatives in this House are on their side and working to ensure that they are treated with the respect and dignity that their hard work, dedication and sacrifices deserve. I commend the Bill to the House.
Jonathan Lord
I am grateful to my hon. Friend for her support for the Bill. I was pleased to support her in her private Member’s endeavours and it is nice to have that compliment returned. I hope the new citizenship test is much more about our democracy, our history, the rule of law, Magna Carta and so on, rather than how to claim benefits or some of the more esoteric questions that she has just cited.
Harriett Baldwin
The enthusiasm and the accuracy with which I welcome the Bill are such that I want to hear confirmation from the Minister that any serving member of our armed forces who has settled in any of the territories described in the Bill will still have to go through all the aspects of acquisition of citizenship outlined in the 1981 Act, as well as the additional step—the citizenship test brought in since that time.
Jonathan Lord
Does my hon. Friend think that battles that were important to our nation’s past and influenced us over many centuries would be an obvious topic for questions, and ones that our armed services personnel ought to be able to answer? That great history and tradition may be one reason they joined up in the first place.
Harriett Baldwin
My hon. Friend gives an excellent example of why he is so well placed to introduce the Bill. It demonstrates that he understands all the things that we as British citizens consider appropriate ways in which to demonstrate that we understand what it means to be British. If Mr Speaker will bear with me one moment, I shall give an example of the sort of question that used to be in the test, which I do not think was appropriate: how many days in any given year must a school legally be required to be open? Suggested answers are 150 days, 170 days, 190 days and 200 days. Again, I will take interventions from any colleagues who feel confident that they know the answer to that question.
My hon. Friend is right. In bestowing on people the highest gift of citizenship that anyone can have bestowed upon them, which is British citizenship, we want successful individuals to be able to demonstrate that they understand the quintessence of what it means to be British.
Harriett Baldwin
My understanding is that he would have had to have been resident in the territories outlined in the Bill for a considerable period of time before applying.
I will bring to a conclusion this line of discussion, but I am pleased to report to the House—you will forgive me, Mr Speaker—that I was able to get 100% on the new citizenship test. I expect that all the people who go through the process will, as a result of these changes, be able to demonstrate not just the narrow technical points that we define on a page in legislation, such as the number of days, but the wider cultural and historical aspects of what it means to be a British citizen.
My next line of questions for the Minister relates to the Secretary of State’s discretion, which I understand is a crucial part of the legislation. That discretion is vital because someone serving in our armed forces might get into trouble with the law, either civilian or military, and might—I am sure that the numbers are very low—have to go through the ignominy of a dishonourable discharge. If a member of the armed forces has been dishonourably discharged, would that almost invariably mean that they would not meet the new criteria for applying for naturalisation? Perhaps the Minister will confirm that from the Dispatch Box.
That former member of the armed forces might have lived a blameless life for many years since, their dishonourable discharge having been some time in the past, so to what extent will the Secretary of State’s discretion be used in that example? Would it be the case that, however much time had elapsed and however honourable the person’s life had been since, the fact that they had been dishonourably discharged would be sufficient to count against their application for naturalisation?
Will the Minister, when he responds, clarify exactly how the Secretary of State’s discretion might be used in other situations? What other aspects of that discretion might be required? For example, if the person had had a magnificent period of service, left the armed forces, lived in one of the overseas dependencies I listed earlier and was then perhaps convicted of rape or murder, would that be something the Secretary of State would see automatically as a red line? My understanding is that it would, because being of good character is a requirement.
The other area of discretion I would like clarified relates to the requirement to be able to communicate to an acceptable degree in English, Welsh or Scottish Gaelic. Someone might have exemplary military service and fulfil all the conditions, and they might be one of the people who will be helped by the Bill, because at the beginning of their process of naturalisation they were on active service overseas, but perhaps their command of English, Welsh or Scottish Gaelic is not quite at an acceptable level. To what extent will the Secretary of State be able to use his or her discretion in those circumstances? It is a question of how discretion will be used to define good character. Similarly, how will discretion be used to define the ability to communicate in English, Welsh or Scottish Gaelic?
Jonathan Lord
I am not sure how many Fijians in our armed forces are fluent in Scottish Gaelic, but I suspect not many. Does my hon. Friend think that that would be a handicap to our foreign armed services personnel who come to this country and try to acclimatise to our customs, language and communications?
Harriett Baldwin
I am proud to say that my grandmother spoke Scottish Gaelic fluently.
Mel Stride
I thank my hon. Friend for making that extremely important point. We have the annual report on the armed forces covenant. The Bill proposed by my hon. Friend the Member for Woking addresses one key omission in the last annual report, namely the qualification or otherwise for naturalisation based on where a person happens to be five years prior to making their application.
Some have argued that that is a relatively narrow and small point, but it is a large and significant one, particularly now that it has gained huge public notice as a consequence of my hon. Friend’s Bill. Many of the military charities, including the Royal British Legion, have demonstrably shown support for it. It is therefore important that we give the Bill every possible support as it passes through both Houses.
Jonathan Lord
I thank my hon. Friend very much indeed for his strong support for the Bill, and for serving in Committee on a previous private Member’s Bill of mine. He speaks movingly of the Falklands conflict—he and I were at college together at the time—which was a pivotal point for our country. Does he have other insights, perhaps from the armed forces based in his constituency? Has he taken part in the parliamentary armed forces scheme to give him further insights into how much citizenship could mean to our foreign and commonwealth armed forces personnel?
Mel Stride
As I intimated earlier, I have never been a member of the armed forces, but I am acutely aware of that through my contacts with constituents and the Royal British Legion, and particularly the Ashburton branch. I should like to take this opportunity to salute all they do to support not only servicemen but their families and those in wider community who are affected when they have difficulties. The Bill is a totemic issue. Were it to fail to pass, it would have serious implications for the message we seek to send to our armed forces in support of them.
The anomaly whereby, if a person happens not to have been resident within the UK five years prior to the moment at which they make their application for naturalisation, they cannot, even at the discretion of the Home Secretary, achieve British citizenship, is quite wrong. I hope the Minister gives serious thought to how reapplications by the small number of individuals who have been caught by that anomaly in the 1981 Act can, in some sense, be looked upon more favourably than if they had not applied or failed in the past because of the anomaly.
Jonathan Lord
I am very grateful for my hon. Friend’s strong support and excellent speech, but can he help me? If the Bill is given a Second Reading, will he consider serving on the Committee that scrutinises the Bill?
Margot James (Stourbridge) (Con)
It is a pleasure to follow my hon. Friend the Member for Central Devon (Mel Stride) and to reinforce many of the points that he has made. I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Woking (Jonathan Lord) on choosing such an important subject for his private Member’s Bill.
As we have heard, there are 9,000 foreign and Commonwealth personnel serving in our armed forces. Without negating the desirability of recruiting more British-born personnel to our armed forces, the House is in accord when it comes to the huge contribution that members of the Commonwealth have made to our armed forces over the years. My hon. Friend gave the first world war as an example, and I intervened to point out that this country was in great need of the services of people from the Commonwealth in the second world war, so this tradition goes back a long way.
More recently, we have been fortunate to have the services of people from the Commonwealth in Iraq, Afghanistan and many other parts of the world, sometimes in conflict situations, sometimes in peacekeeping roles and also in meeting sudden needs in this country, such as the security challenges for the Olympics last year. It is a crucial part of the military covenant, and I am proud to be a supporter of a Government who have put such store by that covenant. As the Bill proves, there is still some way to go to honour fully the spirit of the covenant and ensure that we demonstrate our moral obligation to members of the armed forces, and their families, who make such sacrifices for the nation. We must also counter any disadvantages they might suffer by dint of being members of the armed forces. Most importantly, we must compensate them with special treatment wherever appropriate.
My hon. Friend mentioned that the concept of the military covenant goes back to Roman times, with the issue of nationality and the status that it gives being the ultimate reward for people who put their lives at risk serving their nation. Men who served in the Roman army were automatically given the status of Roman citizenship, and it is that principle that I hope we will be able to see into British law today.
The UK Border Agency is trying to improve the situation for people from overseas and Commonwealth territories who serve in our armed forces in several ways to ensure that immigration and nationality issues do not disadvantage them. It currently does so in a number of ways. We have seen that army charities support the Bill as a way of reducing discrimination in matters of nationality, and I would like to quote the Army Families Federation, which sums up the welcome for the Bill:
“This legislation will make a big difference to the many soldiers and their spouses who are currently prohibited from applying for Citizenship because they were serving overseas or were on operations at the start of the 5 year residential period. The current rule has been disproportionately disadvantaging members of HM Forces and their families for many years, and the AFF is fully supportive of the proposed changes”.
I am sure that in its support the AFF and other charities are mindful of the fact that the people who join the armed forces are subject to service law. That distinguishes them from people in other occupations, in that once they are committed to a career in the armed forces, they have no choice about being deployed overseas, often at short notice. It therefore comes as no surprise that there have always been, and, unless the Bill is passed there will always be, individuals who are in the wrong place at the wrong time in the service of our country while putting their lives on the line.
The Bill is incredibly important. It may affect only approximately 200 people at any point in time, but the House is not just about protecting the rights of the many; it is also about protecting the rights, liberty and equal treatment of the few, and I can imagine that for those 200 people this is probably the most important thing in their lives. I can well imagine the shock on realising that they are barred from citizenship. I am sure that most of them are unaware of the state of the law until they embark on the application process.
I would like to talk a little more about the military covenant, as it is the basis for the legitimacy of the Bill. I was interested to read the armed forces covenant annual report published last year. There was a lot in the report—if Members are interested, it is available in the Library—about the challenges facing people from the Commonwealth serving in our armed forces when they come to apply for citizenship or exercise their rights. The report received many contributions from charities such as the Naval Families Federation, the Army Families Federation and the RAF Families Federation. My hon. Friend the Member for Woking cited in support of his Bill many of the charities that have contributed to the report and to the ongoing monitoring of the military covenant in practice. He mentioned, of course, the Royal British Legion, with which all Members work in their constituencies, particularly on key dates of the year, such as national Armed Forces day and, most importantly, Remembrance day. These groups have given their time to monitor the progress of the military covenant. When my hon. Friend takes the Bill through Committee, as we all hope he will, he might consider some related issues on nationality. The charities that contributed to the report, particularly the Army Families Federation, receive regular, continued complaints about families receiving inconsistent advice from the UK Border Agency. I am pleased that the Government are listening to those complaints and that changes are in train that should allow those families to be treated like any other family applying for visas. That is crucial.
The other matter that I want to raise concerns an issue that I mentioned in brief earlier. In order to ensure greater consistency, there is a need for guidance from the Home Office and the Ministry of Defence to clarify, both for case officers considering applications for settlement and naturalisation and for applicants, how people’s military service will affect an application. As I mentioned earlier, at the moment applications for settlement and naturalisation can be rejected on the basis of military offences, which I understand can be quite minor in nature and which, importantly, would not incur a conviction in civilian life. That is surely an example of a disadvantage of being a member of the armed forces, which the military covenant is designed to remove.
The military covenant has been successful at removing discrimination in other areas and making special allowances for the fact that those leaving the armed forces will be at a disadvantage for having served. I am thinking, for example, of parents with primary school-age children who move to an area where there is huge pressure on primary schools. Such parents are being helped by the special measures that are now being put in place. I cite that as an example of the Government’s acknowledging that members of the armed forces are at an inherent disadvantage by virtue of their former profession. The Government are correcting that disadvantage. Indeed, there are many other examples, which Members will know from their constituencies—citing them would perhaps force me to stray too far from the Bill—of where the Government have righted previous wrongs. This is an important area that my hon. Friend the Member for Woking is giving us a chance to address.
In conclusion, we hope that the military covenant will be a living instrument. We need to build on progress and sustain the momentum, to uphold the principles of no disadvantage and, crucially, of special treatment—I have given an example in education, but there are many others, including in health. The Bill contributes significantly to that momentum.
Jonathan Lord
My hon. Friend speaks well about the beneficial effects of the armed forces covenant and how the Bill helps to fill a small gap in it. Has she met any soldiers or servicewomen in her constituency who might benefit from it or who think it is a good idea?
Margot James
I have met many serving or retired members of our armed forces—I work with the Royal British Legion, among other organisations. Having a relatively stable population in my constituency, I have not been privileged to meet any of the 200 or so individuals who will be affected by the Bill, but I am sure that the Royal British Legion and other representatives of the armed forces charities in my constituency would be right behind my hon. Friend in introducing this important measure. It will contribute hugely to the momentum that we want to maintain behind the military covenant, removing as it does the anomaly that places some 200 members of our armed forces at a disadvantage. I congratulate my hon. Friend on bringing the Bill to the House.
Jonathan Lord
Perhaps my intervention will pre-empt a further one. My hon. Friend the Member for Christchurch (Mr Chope) is interested in, and perhaps even concerned about, the retrospective element of the Bill. However, I should point out to him that, by the Bill’s nature, the time elapsed will mean that the people affected— whether they live in the UK, are in the armed services or are in Crown service and wish to naturalise as British citizens and live in the UK—will already have qualified. In that sense, there are no great numbers waiting for any retrospective aspect of the Bill. They will already qualify. I hope that that point is helpful.
Mr Harper
It is helpful. Before I give way to my hon. Friend the Member for Christchurch, it is worth saying that the disadvantage suffered by members of the armed forces under the existing legal position did not mean that they could not seek naturalisation. The disadvantage was that they had to wait longer than someone who was not serving overseas.
To the extent that the disadvantage they suffered was a delay in seeking naturalisation, my hon. Friend is right that the people who suffered from that disadvantage in the past will almost certainly have been in a position to seek naturalisation since.
Jonathan Lord
I saw the Minister nodding vigorously as my hon. Friend the Member for Christchurch (Mr Chope) was making his points, so it looks as though that matter will be addressed. I agree with the points that my hon. Friend has raised.
I would like to thank all Members who have attended and contributed to today’s debate. I particularly thank the hon. Member for West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine (Sir Robert Smith) for waiting so patiently for his Bill to be debated, and I can assure him that I will not prevent that from happening for much longer.
I would like to put on record my thanks to hon. Friends and hon. Members who have spoken in the debate. My hon. Friends the Members for Gainsborough (Sir Edward Leigh), for West Worcestershire (Harriett Baldwin), for Central Devon (Mel Stride), for Stourbridge (Margot James) and for Hexham (Guy Opperman) all made interesting and perceptive points, contributing a great deal to the debate that we have just enjoyed. I particularly thank my hon. Friend the Member for Christchurch (Mr Chope) for his perceptive and inquisitorial interventions and his tidying-up at the end, ensuring that there will be no loose ends on the statute book as a result of this Bill.
I would greatly like to thank Her Majesty’s loyal Opposition for their support and particularly the hon. Member for Kingston upon Hull North (Diana Johnson) for her contribution. Her support and that of all Members is extremely welcome. This should be a cross-party measure, and it looks as though it will be.
I greatly thank, too, the Minister for Immigration, my hon. Friend the Member for Forest of Dean (Mr Harper) for being here throughout the debate, for speaking at some length in support of my Bill and for answering the questions, some of which were above my pay grade and some of which would have baffled even the most legal and scholastic minds. My hon. Friend the Minister knows this stuff backwards and I think he answered everything to every Member’s satisfaction. I look forward to working with him and the Government and with other Members and parties as we take the Bill forward, I hope, into Committee and its further stages.
With the approval of Members, it is my hope that, in building on the armed forces covenant, this Bill will be a further signal sent out both to those servicemen and women who currently hold a UK passport and are British citizens and to those who do not—those who have joined our armed forces for Queen and country and, in a sense, for the common wealth and the common good. The public and their parliamentary representatives are on their side in the difficult jobs they do in this country and around the world. They should be treated with the respect and dignity that their hard work and sacrifice deserve.
In thanking all hon. Members again for their support, I commend the Bill to the House.
Question put and agreed to.
Bill accordingly read a Second time, and committed.